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512M motor in boxer

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by boxerman, May 31, 2013.

  1. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #1 boxerman, May 31, 2013
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
    Newmans M motor in a Tr inspired me,

    I just bought one of the last new 512M motors out there. Going to store it for a while. The idea is to eventualy do a clean transplant to my boxer with the ability to simply swap one or the other motor(m or Boxer) in and out, so the car can go back to orig config as simply as an eo serivice.

    I am guessing a Boxer with a M motor and Tr gearbox wil be alot more duarble for an occasional trackday, and wipe any of the moderns on the street in a fast rally(actualy the boxer with proper tires already does), plus its really the car ferrari should have built had marketing and legislation not taken them to the Tr, and perhaps the car i always wanted my boxer to be. You know close to 500 reliable injected BHP with light internls for that quick revvy race car feel. Maybe I sall name it the BB512M

    Or the other alternative in my mind is to build up from a shell a Boxer silouete type car for track fun.

    Either way I figured better get the motor while I can.



    What say Ye.
     
  2. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    I say very cool!!!!!
     
  3. JTR

    JTR Formula 3
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    BB512M!
    Go for it!

    John
     
  4. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    I say nice score Sean. My Boxer race car project is likely to be a Boxerossa. The Testarossa parts are just so much more affordable. And I don't want to convert a street car to a track car.

    I think my car will be mostly Boxer. I now have parts from four Boxers and am going to take parts from many more. But to have fun and not get so badly upside down, I think I'm going to go full on custom suspension and Testa power to the wheels.

    In my case, if I can source the suspension and power from a Boxer, I would be very proud to have a buncha bitsa a buncha Boxers. I could easily see swapping motors in my project. But It's going to be a rough and ready racer that I would like to be able to street just for kicks. I'm not going to be concerned about the proper trim if you know what I mean.

    I think that setup you have may have a bit lower center of gravity. I've read something to that effect on occassion.



    I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd have the "other" one, whichever is out, on a stand. If you have that kind of garage.

    I won't want to do a full on tube frame though. I want to be more faithful to the Boxer.

    Again, my congradulations on having some nice resources and options. A BB512M. :)
     
  5. wlanast

    wlanast Formula 3
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    ever since seeing that crate motor, AC comp, starter, and ALL!, that Newman posted I have been thinking how I can justify that purchase.

    I guess that is one way to do the carrier upgrade, lol!

    I will live vicariously through you and Paul for now, cheers!

    BB512M, catchy.
    W
     
  6. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Please keep us informed Sean !
     
  7. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #7 boxerman, Jun 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
    I have had my car for just over 20 years. Its taken me a good part of those years to get everythig working just ast it should( a moving target on a ferrari). Like all cars you often think what would I improve while keeping the essential character intact.

    I have spent 5 years going back to the eurospares site looking at those motors. I did some research into how much $$$ it would take to up the amps on boxer motor, its a value that well exceeds the price of the M motor. The motor was vailable no and sometimes you have to move before the opportunity passes so I pulled the rtigger on the motor. I well remmember in 96 when you could buy a new LT5 vette motor and I did not have the money or gumption.

    To me the M motor is the ultimate flat 12 from ferari and the boxer the ultimate body. I have already done wheels and tires. A suspension rebuild is next on the list. After that i will be approaching my Eo service so it will be time.

    Plus we have the fantastic resource in Newman, who not only knows how to put the M motor in the car, but more just as importantly knows how to make a M motor run.

    For shocks I am thinking penske 2 way adjustables, as I love the adjustables on my lotus.
    I think then I will have the ferrari I would most want, since the moderns inspire me as much as fat free icecream and non alcohol beer.

    But since resources are a factor, completion is a few years out. Just was wondering what the boxer bretheren thought.
    Had thought of getting ashell and doing a track car, but as you say, one gets upside down very quickly. Still if the right shell came along?

    Anyway started witht he motor. Next stop transmisiion. But I may get diverted to a SPF Gt 40 for the track first. I told my wife that then Iwill be alldone, she gave me one ofthose looks reserved forthe cat when it brings in a mouse.

    As to garage space, its a serious issue.
     
  8. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Once again; who has these engines ?
     
  9. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Sounds like the project I have in waiting.

    Ps a BB512 with a M motor, limited edidion, with LM bodywork would be a ;

    BB512MLELM
    ;)
     
  10. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Please update us on this thread. Im a Boxer owner for 28 years and am so fascinated with all this!!!!!!
     
  11. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Since mine will be stock bodywork, probably only a BB512M, the car ferrari would have made in the absence of EPA and DOT and Luca.

    Still need a tr transmission thouh, no rush.
     
  12. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    They are gone, myself and someone else here bought the last two new ones that I know of.
     
  13. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #13 Newman, Jul 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    2 new M engines arrived Friday. Ill perform a leak down test on them both shortly. The last M I tested showed 2.5% on all 12, Im hoping these are the same.

    The engines come with a dyno sheet and dates, one is the end of 95 the other in 96. HP on the 3 engines ranged from 422-425HP at 6750RPM. I would prefer to see 440HP like ferrari claims but these are fresh and need to break in. The feedback im getting on the Testarossa conversion says the power is increasing and it pulls right to the 7500PRM redline. If I have that car back at some point Ill put the car on a dyno. The engine serial numbers have just one engine separating the sequence which is cool. Ill replace the timing belts and water pump seals just as I did on the other M engine when its time to put them in. For now they get tucked away after testing.

    Such a phenomenal engine and an absolute bargain. I can only imagine how this will transform a boxer.
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  14. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
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    Paul what's your plan for these - keep them stock, or a set of ITB's, trumpets, and a MoTeC to run everything?
     
  15. 53ford

    53ford Karting

    Nov 13, 2009
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    The M motor definately does not dissapoint... it's turned my testarossa into a sleeper. My 308 and 360 are pouting, they're barely getting driven. Love the Fuchs exhaust too.
     
  16. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    No firm plans yet other than one will power a boxer. The one on the right is Sean's for his boxer the other is for me. Neither of us have settled on inductions but I have a few ideas rolling around in my head.
     
  17. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    I priced the Fuchs for the boxer. Comes as two muffler cans like the ansa and double the price of the testarossa pretty much. Sad to say but a Tubi for a boxer is a cheap solution vs the Fuchs. Love the fuchs sound though.
     
  18. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    I am thinking bell exhaust. As to induction, the M motor runners and plenum will not fit under aboxer lid. One solution is to modify the rear subframe to mount the motor lower as in the M. But then you are making irreversable changes.

    So its either soemthign liem a borla Twm system, which I think is a bridge too far, or modifying the M runners and plenum to fit. Shortening the runner will affect low down torque a bit but then their is top end gain.

    I any event much as I love my BBi it does require a lot of rowing of the gears to keep in the quite narrow powerband. The M motor with its extra 1k of revs with something like 100 more BHp should liven things up. Plus all those lightweight in ternals should make for a snappy rever. The goal is to have the car that ferrari would have build had legislation and marketing not given us the heavy wide Tr instead.

    I alsready have modern wheels/tires. Brakes need to ge thgought about and penske is happy to make shocks.

    We are not going to change the essence of the boxer at all, rather build a boxer on steroids, much liek a 288 is a 308 on steroids. You know turn the volume up from 7 to 11.
     
  19. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #19 Newman, Jul 16, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Had a chance to mount casters on the M engines so I could roll them around. I plan to cover them up but only after Im tired of seeing this site every morning as I have a coffee!

    My BB engine in the foreground ready for detailing, headgaskets and plating then back in it goes for the time being.
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  20. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Paul, did the M motor fit the TR with the ac and alt as per the m engine. Would this work in the boxer too or do we need to reloacate.

    Imho the powerpack boxer ie two motors is going to be worth more, but then I have a stake in the outcome. The alternative of course is just to put the boxer motor back sale time and just sell the M motor and tranny, that I think will be optimum value assuming one was selling.

    Another way of looking at it, take one 125k boxer add 50k of motor etc and for 175k you have the best possible ferrari to drive short of a 288. Plus you are not using up the orig motor or risking blowing the "weak" boxer diff tranny.
     
  21. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Wanted to talk about the effect this mod has on the car's value.

    Some have said it will reduce the value of the car and I can agree with that depending on the circumstances. If you take a complete BBi engine out and store it away and replace it with a new crate M engine along with an appropriate gearbox and make it as simple as an EO to revert back to the BBi setup how would that effect value?

    I guess the question is more a case of will you get your M engine, gearbox and labour value back out of the car in addition to the car's value as an M powered BBi with an extra original BBi engine assy? That was a mouthful. If you put the BBi back together stock then sold the M power train separately would you get it all back?

    I prefer the boxer with M power vs stock, it will absolutely transform the car but upset the purists. I like originality but I also like reversible mods that make it something better than enzo had in mind and I would pay a premium for that.
     
  22. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    The alternator and A/C fit but the new compressor was stuck from sitting so long so I had to put the old one back on before putting the engine in. If the line from the center of the car wont reach then I can have a short jumper line made to bridge the connection.
     
  23. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    This -- but you'll get a lot of disagreement about the labor $s to "put (it) back together" (if sold before that's been done) -- especially in 10~20 years of disuse on the BBi engine. JMO.
     
  24. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Well these M engines have 17 years of disuse and test fine. The other one I put in is mechanically perfect. Depends on how its stored I guess. Climate controlled in ones basement as a coffee table comes to mind! I just need to convince my wife I need an engine in the house.
     
  25. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    paul...you need an engine in the house!! :)

    this is a crazy cool project you two have to look forward to. wow, the bbi should be a rocket ship!!!

    have fun and by all means have at it!!!!

    I hope all is well paul. look forward to chatting soon!

    peter
     

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