#54845 Major(ish) Service

Like most of you, it's been a dream since childhood: working on a Ferrari. The first time I saw a 308 was around 1978, in Car & Driver. I can still remember looking at that gorgeous car on the cover and thinking "One day... some day... (please God) I'll be tearing that car apart. And if I'm really lucky, at least twice a year. There will be so many parts all over the garage you won't even be able to WALK through it."

That was everyone else's dream, right?

This won't be a step-by-step, as I get tunnel-vision when I'm working on cars and forget to take a pic every 5 minutes. I usually only take pics for a reference when it's time to put stuff back together. Or for Instagram. But as I've learned a lot from looking at others' disassembly pics, maybe this thread will be of value. If you've never done this before, don't rely on this thread to teach you to do it. I've never done this on a Ferrari either, so read 183 other (more informative) Fchat threads before attempting this. I'll happily answer questions, but take my answers with that in mind.

So here we have my 1985 Euro QV, 46,800 miles. Purchased in July 2017.

Known History:
Records that came with the car indicates previous owner had a shop do a 30K major service in Jan 2015, miles were 44,300. For those keeping score, that was 2500 miles ago. Cam seals, cam cover gaskets, distributor seals, and a few other seals were replaced (plus many other unrelated items on the invoice I'm not mentioning. It's a long list, totaling $35,315.56.)

Current Symptoms:
The car has at least 4 lubricant leaks. The gear and oil pan gaskets have minor drips at the studs due to a mistake on my part, when I changed this gaskets 6 months ago and didn't torque the pans correctly. I knew within a couple days after the repair that a leak had developed (and why), but decided to wait until the next oil change to redo (just check the oil regularly, top off, you know the routine). The other 2 leaks are far more troubling. One on the rear bank, at the end cover/inlet connection. The other was a mystery, but after lots of reading and use of a flashlight I suspected it was coming from a front bank cam seal dripping down the side of the block.

I've not removed the rear deck, as it requires the help of a couple of friends and they weren't present at 1pm on Thursday when I was bored and wandered into the garage to start doing this. So far it hasn't presented too much obstruction. The first thing I did after draining the gear/motor oils was remove the right rim + fender well, and the airbox. Next was the spark plugs and valve covers.

A note on tools: If a job is too hard, the problem is often use of the wrong tool or the wrong procedure. I use a lot of different ratchets and extensions. On a couple of the front plugs, it's easiest to put the socket+extension down the hole, then connect the ratchet. Unscrew plug, remove ratchet, then pull plug out by the extension. For other stuff: my most-often used combo is a small 1/4 ratchet with a long 10mm socket. It's a lot easier to manipulate into tight spaces than a standard 3/8 ratchet, and for many fasteners there's no torque involved that requires the longer hefty 3/8.

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The valve covers were quite stuck to the heads. Metal prybars and screwdrivers are a huge don't use. I use some plastic blade scrapers from the hardware store, made for painting & drywall repair. Light taps with a rubber hammer on the scraper can help split the gap apart.

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Front valve cover off. I completely disconnected the airbox upper/lower (via right tire well), which gives better access to those acorn nuts on the far right of the cover, just in front of the fuel distributor.

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Valve covers, end caps, and rear cam belt cover (plus cross-over pipe, AC belt, AC bracket, and engine bracket):

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All those tiny washers on the cover studs can be a pain to remove. I've seen some people just remove the nuts, pull the cover, and let the washers all fall to the ground. Hopefully they find them all. An easier trick is to put a magnet next to the stud, then flick the washer with your finger until the magnet grabs it. Shown here (cover and washers already removed, but you get the idea.)

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Keep everything organized as you work. I love magnetic trays. Buy several, they're $5. Note: the acorn nuts aren't magnetic.

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The 2 distributor end caps (note: I have an XDI system, so no distributors), and the end cap (in the middle) from the front bank. Lots of orange sealant on these. It took approx 90 mins to get the middle cap off. Not joking. In case you've never done this: the endcap in the middle (front bank, lower cam) must be removed to get the valve cover off, as the cover as 2 studs that go through this cover.

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Spark plugs (replaced in the past year) show evidence of engine running rich. I'm not overly suprised nor worried about this. I've had some issues with the ignition system (since corrected), and I plan to look into correcting the mix in the Fall when I'm back in school and have all the cool toys that analyze emissions. 2 plugs have a bit of oil on the threads. I'm hoping this is due to leaks from the middle seals, allowing oil to drip down the spark plug holes.

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Covers finally off, time to see what's going on in here. The green gaskets border on brittle, and a couple tore apart when the covers were pulled off the engine. But the cam seals are what I'm actually interested in. First, the rear bank. Again, lots of orange sealant everywhere. Sometimes on a stud, sometimes not. The O-rings have an odd black/white color streak thing going on. I'm guessing it's black RTV on white O-rings (plus orange sealant), but not sure. Somehow I don't think these O-rings are only 2500 miles old. Either way, they're being replaced along with the camshaft seals.

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Now for the front bank, where one of our major leaks originates. More orange sealant all over. Those of you familiar with this procedure might note the area indicated by the arrow. Yep. For all the orange crap everywhere, the actual places that you MUST seal with RTV appear to be un-sealed, under-sealed, or lucky-that-random-spurt-of-RTV-wound-up-there sealed. Not what I'd expect from a mechanic charging $35K, but I'm still new at this maybe I haven't learned the "random sealant application" technique yet.

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Camshaft marks are lining up closely at TDC, so that's nice. I'll be checking all the valve clearances before I'm done, of course.

Ah - a quick tip. The 6-month old belts have to come off (yes, I'm replacing with new ones), which means all the regular stuff for a timing belt job has to come off. Which means dealing with that heavy-as-hell bulky AC compressor. I use a 2x4 and a floor jack to hold it into a decent position. Keeps hoses/car from getting damaged. It's still a b**ch to deal with, but this lowers the hate factor a couple of notches.

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Now that I know what needs to be replaced, time to order from Ricambi. While I'm waiting for parts, I'll be cleaning all that stupid fracking orange goop off everything. I love doing tedious cleaning, so yay.

More to come at some point. Later!

 

Heya Mike. I've read up on that mod, and it looks like a good idea. I think I'd rather do it with the engine pulled, (though I see you were successful without that... you have a surgeon's touch, I think). So as beneficial as it can be, that bit will have to stay on my future-to-do list. By then I'll also have the experience/nerve to do it.

 

Girodisc rotors on all wheels. The front calipers are Giro, the rear are stock. I believe the rears were painted red (to match the red Giro calipers).

 

Thanks

Here's a closer view of that area. I'm guessing the blue connection is the do-dad in question? I can tell it goes to the fuel distributor, but no idea as to purpose. I haven't done much fuel service on the car, so haven't researched all those components and functions yet.

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Yep, around February. A local hydraulic shop rebuild the top line for $41, vs new hoses for $375. They did an awesome job, still looks OE. And no more leak there.

Lots of top end work (including gaskets and seals that I'm currently replacing). Other highlights include a belt job, steering and suspension, the Griodisc brakes, a bit of interior work, new radiator, installing the XDI.

It's a very long and impressive list. The quality of the work itself is less impressive... a substantial amount of time and money that I've spent in my garage this year relates to correcting mistakes the shop made.

 

Oh, that bell-shaped thing. It looks like a fuel pressure regulator to me.

It's a Swiss car, btw.

 

Just wanted to say - there's so much to learn with these things, and I greatly appreciate everyone who takes time to share their knowledge.

 

Question on Valve Clearances:

I'll preface my question with an example, hopefully to make my question clear.

When I've set valve clearances on a VTEC engine, the procedure is (basically) set to TDC. Check valves on cylinder 1. Rotate crank 90 degrees, check cyl 4 valves. Rotate 90, check cyl 3. Etc.

Obviously the 308QV isn't a VTEC engine. So I've got the 308 at TDC. The 4 marks on the cams are aligned nicely. I see on page B30 of the WSM the proper clearances for intake/exhaust, and on page B32 the basic procedure for checking clearance. So far, no big deal.

What I Cannot Determine:

Do I check all 32 values from this singular TDC crankshaft position, or do I rotate the crankshaft (180, 360, etc) for a specific set/group of cylinders? Then rotate again, and check another group? If I do, what are the positions & valves to check with each crank rotation?

I've read a few threads (and the WSM), but haven't found this particular procedure in steps/detail. Any input appreciated.

 

Aha. That was one of my guesses, but I didn't want to guess. Thanks Mitchell, was exactly what I needed.

 

Been a few days since I could make it back to the garage. I don't have any new sexy pics of the engine bay, but here's a tantalizing view of last week's delivery from Ricambi. Also came with a nifty "Happy Father's Day" hat (not pictured).

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Checking the valves isn't that bad. The secret is:

1. Make a chart
2. Get a lawnchair
3. Put a cooler in front of the lawnchair, like a makeshift desk
4. Convince your GF/BF/etc to sit in the chair with a pen
5. Measure the gaps and call them out, so your happy SO can write them down on the chart while simultaneously keeping up with her "Clash of Clans" instant messages.

Easily takes a hour off this job, instead of trying to measure everything and also handle a pen + feeler gauges. Also is sort of a "couple activity", which I'm constantly told we need more of. In any case, most of the shims will continue on the journey with me. The exhaust values on Cyl 2 are a bit out of spec, so I'll buy 2 new shims and replace them when I have the cams out.

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Finally, a quick tip. Gloves are great for clean hands, but sometimes make fine manipulation difficult. Things like oily feeler gauges. Here's a product I use (you can get it on Amazon), which is sort of like... a hand lotion barrier cream. Really does a nice job of keeping grease/oil out of your fingernails and cuticles. Washes off easily, taking the oil/dirt with it.

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Time for a new (shorter) shopping list. Hoping I'll get everything removed and cleaned by the end of the week, so that the put-it-all-back-together can start soon. We'll see.

 

I spent a couple hours getting the oil and gear sump pans off. Nothing exciting there, which is a good thing. The dipstick tube remains a ***** to remove from the block, but this time took about 30 mins compared to the 2 days and 5 hours the first time. They'll get some cleanup and new gaskets after everything else is done.

Today was Remove The Timing Belts and Cams Day. I've done a belt change before, but never removed a set of cams. Was time to see if my education is paying off. Fortunately it went quite smoothly. I double-checked all the TDC marks, and grabbed a ratchet and some Gatorade. Here's a pic of the rear bank. You'll notice just the slightest hint of old(er) black RTV used around the gasket, plus the excess orange RTV mentioned earlier. More on that in a bit.

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Cams and journals removed, all lined up nicely so that they can be reassembled in the proper order and combinations. The journals have 1-20 stamped on them, which is a nice touch by Ferrari to help you get them back in their happy place. I still recommend you organize it sensibly, though.

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Here's a short of the rear bank, just behind the cam gears. How many different colors of old sealants can you spot? I'm pretty sure I see 3. A note to technically-inclined readers: all remnants of old RTV should be cleaned off before you reassemble. You don't add new sealant on top of old sealant on top of old flaky peeling sealant. This isn't drywall. You don't just paint a new coat over everything.

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The 2 camshaft seal carriers from the rear bank. You get a gold star if you can tell what color the o-rings where when new... is the ring white or black? I find it hard to believe these were replaced when the car was serviced 2500 miles ago. The camseals look decent-ish (at least no visible damage) but they're getting replaced too.

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Finally, a pic of the front bank - yep, there's our mystery leak, pooling into grime just under the front cams. More random orange RTV, of course. Also note the slivers of old(er) black RTV in the seal channel crevices. Shockingly, the seal leaked.

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Next tasks: cleaning off all the gunk.

 

I'm going to try plastic scrapers, scotchbrite pads and Dremel disks, and lots of acetone. The shop vac will be nearby to vacuum any stray bits off the engine.

If I had the engine out right now, I'd just be replacing the studs.

 

This morning, I started with the gunk removal and cleaning. I'm doing the removed parts first. It took a few passes to determine which techniques were most effective, so hoping that translates into cleaning up the engine a bit easier. Here's the Ferrari RTV Removal Kit I picked up at Home Depot:

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Our first victim is a distributor end cap. I wrap a thick leather belt around soft parts, before sticking them in the vise. This keep the stronger vise jaws from marring the aluminum.

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After about 20-30 minutes, finally clean. Combination of heat gun + all those tools and chemicals. The goal with abrasive pads is to use the least abrasive one possible, and still get the job done. So start with the finest grit, then work your way to rougher if needed. It's better for a finer pad to take 10 mins, than use a heavy grit which not only strips the part quickly, but also starts eating into the part itself.

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Getting the cam seals out was the standard PITA. I guess it's easier doing it on the bench than off the transaxle under the car, but still a crappy task. After another 2-3 hours, all the caps and seal carriers are cleaned up, washed, degreased, and ready for new seals. Hopefully they won't leak...

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Spent the rest of the afternoon with scrubbers and acetone. I'm not sure if I'm now high or a bit brain-damaged. Most of the RTV now cleaned off. I see a few smears and specks that I'll handle tomorrow, but feeling like at least the all work is worth the results I've gotten.

The worst part is cleaning the channels where the seals/rings go. It's deeper than my scrubbers, so getting it 100% clean is taking awhile.

Once that's done, I'll do a quick scrub on the oil/gear pans to make sure they're clean and smooth. Still need to order 2 shims (and damn, I keep forgetting that.) Almost time to start reassembly, at least.

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