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550 maranello

Discussion in 'Canada' started by tsang85, Nov 24, 2004.

  1. tsang85

    tsang85 Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2004
    361
    Vancouver
    Im looking into buying a 550 from the U.S., due to the weak exchange, but i'm not sure if it's good to buy one there and convert it to canadian specs. It seems like canadian 550 prices are much higher than in the U.S.
    has anybody done this before? is this a good idea?
     
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  3. Kewpie

    Kewpie Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2004
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    i can say that with the exchange it is very favorable to buy across the border. take your time to find them.

    i am very surprised that FMoV is keeping the cars at such a high exchange rate (their newest CS is at $300k), knowing that many owners can buy across the border.
     
  4. Kewpie

    Kewpie Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2004
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    btw, have you seen the new superamerica?
    nice design with the roof.
     
  5. tsang85

    tsang85 Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2004
    361
    Vancouver
    I dont like it very much, ESPECIALLY the roof. i think it's not that good looking imo. If i had to choose between the superamerica and barchetta, i'd go with the barhcetta.
     
  6. MayB1Day

    MayB1Day Karting
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    Oct 25, 2004
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    Dave
    Is there a place besides www.riv.ca that will tell us what needs to be done to various Fcars to get them licensed in Canada?

    riv just indicates basic requirements the car needs such as a kids seat teather, bumper has to be modified, etc...

    Surely there are a few ppl around that have imported Fcars. Ive got a friend who bought a new S2000 in the US recently, so from a procedural aspect that info is available (to whomever may want it), but what scares me is that it may be horrifically expensive to convert these cars...
     
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  8. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Any momentary, and I might add, "temporary" gain that someone might accrue on a high end US car that you could buy across the border solely because of a genuine perceived diffference in value, will be wiped out when either the currency market corrects itself in due course (and it always does)......or when they used car market corrects itself rapidly (and it always does).

    *Pooof*

    That was the sound of the "perceived" savings going up in smoke......you are now stuck with a US car up here in Canada that you have as much money invested into as someone could have bought an identical Canadian car for once the market corrects.....ask yourself....."would I have bought that US car if all thing were equal"......of course not.

    It's difficult enough to sell US iron up here I should add......so think long and hard about putting your own money into something for personal use............in the almost two decades that I have been a salesman and dealer of high end cars I have only seen ONE small operation import US stuff and make money....only to spectacularily blow up 18 months later and leave in it's wake a totally ruined used 928/944 marketplace (that was what they were importing).

    You could say....."whoaaa......as I dealer I am leading you astray for my benefit"......and if that was the case ask yourself....how come all the high end dealers....who have the money, clout and experience are not doing it ?

    Maybe we know better...........and that unfortunately is based on past experience.

    Good luck regardless !! And I know where their is a cheap Canadian 550 with 60,000 kms...Titanium on Grey....6 speed for sale....PM me if interested.
     
  9. MayB1Day

    MayB1Day Karting
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    Based upon that, you are suggesting that it is better to buy a CDN car for $X premium to the US car, watch its depreciation accelerate as the market corrects, and feel good about having something that is worth X% less then what you paid because you're going to have an easier time selling it for current CDN market price.

    Id suggest that the hit you'd take from selling a US car here in Canada would likely not offset the original cost savings. BUT dont forget to factor in conversion to CDN specs into the equation, whatever that amount may be.

    I agree with your efficient market analogy, but it works against CDN cars in the nearterm, no?
     
  10. MayB1Day

    MayB1Day Karting
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    Oct 25, 2004
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    Sorry - I missed your inference to purchasing the CDN car AFTER the correction.

    I agree then.

    The only thing is that there is *always* something on the horizon; you can find yourself waiting for it, and the next thing, and the thing after that, for quite some time....
     
  11. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    The reason that a Canadian dealer can't succeed at importing US cars and making money long-term is because these types of opportunities don't exist (usually) for much longer than 12 months. That's probably why the other company disappeared in 18 months. However, if someone were looking to buy a used exotic at this current time for personal use (not resale), they would be foolish to not seriously consider the US market.
     
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  13. MayB1Day

    MayB1Day Karting
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    Oct 25, 2004
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    On that note, Ive been perusing the appropriate web pages for info on what is required to bring Fcars across from the US.

    It appears that 348s (maybe only 1992?) and 355s (1995-1999) are eligeable, among others. Modifications such as child seat teathers and bumper mods are listed as requirements, as are documents outlining things as no outstanding recalls, and original compliance from the manufacturer, DTRLs, etc...

    BUT there is nothing expaining what needs to be done for the specific car. Ive looked for it, but cant find anything.

    This is interesting because an apparently really clean 348 is a good $15k less there, considering only exchange and duty, but a good 355 appears to be almost $40K less! Thats a lot! But much weighs on what is required to get the car to spec. Those F355s that are forsale in Canada for $140, $150, and more, well they're less than $100k if brought across pre conversion costs.

    Anyone know where we can get more specific info?

    Anyone else waiting for the CDN F355 market to better align with that of the US? 348s seem to have, but why are the F355s still crazy dough relative to the US?
     
  14. ToddB

    ToddB Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,241
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    Todd
    If enough of us wanted to buy 355s...we should just buy the canadian bumpers.....and just use it for the inspection (put the us bumpers back on) and share the bumpers.....just a crazy thought


    On the 348 note, I will be looking for a 1990 next year as the 15yr old car rule will allow me to import it without making any changes
     
  15. Kewpie

    Kewpie Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2004
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    i have to disagree with KDS' extrapolation.

    You saved the $$$ now. it is not preceived. You actually saved $X0,000 buying lets say a CS now. (around $50-60,000 CAD if you look at what FMoV charges and what other dealers are selling in the US and with all the taxes, etc etc factored in.)

    2 years down the road, the currency corrects itself.

    You have a 'US' car that is in Canada. You might get $x0,000 less than an actual Canada spec car.

    The difference is the $X0,000 you saved minus the out of country car thing at $x0,000. So, if you think your CS will hit you with a $60,000 difference when you are selling it used, then you lose. I don't think anyone can talk you off $60k based on a registration 'status' as an out of country vehicle.

    I say you would still save money in the end. Not perceived, but actual money.

    If the USD is stronger then, resell the car back to the US.

    Realistically the cars are the same for NA, may be except it says "Canada" on the importer's plate, plus the DRL.
     
  16. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    MayB1Day.....

    Hope this helps.....I've sent lots of cars both ways........

    Once you have selected a US car you must ask FNA for a compliance letter for 'that specific vehicle referenced by VIN' before you do anything. PCNA charges $200 USD for this....I don't know if FNA charges for it....so assume that they probably do.....this letter will have to be shown at the border.

    This letter will 'detail' exactly what has to be done to that car to make it comply.

    You have 45 days to get the car 'in compliance' and all paperwork completed once it gets here or it's bye bye baby....and a lot of your money is forfeit....and the car goes back south again courtesy of Canada Customs.....

    So...before you buy your US car.....get all those $15K or so worth of bumpers in stock at the Ferrari dealer first (and you'll have to pay for them in advance....non-refundable of course)....etc...etc....it took me 8 weeks for a lousy set of keys......so plan ahead.....

    There's more to it than that.......but it's a royal PITA.

    Having said all that.............

    An 80,000 USD 1995 coupe 355 in mint condition with low miles converts to 94,432 CAD (1.1802 as per Bank of Canada)....now add $1,000 of FOREX fees......95,432.....getting it here is another 1,500-2,000 any way you cut it.....so you are at 97,432.....6.1% duty on the converted value of 94,432 is 5,760.....so you are at $103,192....now add 15K of parts plus labor........you'll be over 120K easily. It's a saving of $10-20K CAD..........now is that worth the following risk considering that their is no reward as you plan to keep this car and drive it for at least 12 months.........

    In 12 months or less the market will correct........it always does.............then your car is virtually 'saleproof' compared to a Canadian car that is already here of equal value and condition. So did you save any money ? No you didn't....because the market will discount a US car accordingly. Of course...you can send it south....pay for everything in reverse all over again and/or swallow the pill on this side of the border.

    Anything else such as swapping bumpers is illegal and will get your car impounded and seized if they find out..........and how will they find out ? Well....it could probably involve an insurance lawsuit when they investigate an accident (if you have one).....

    The insurance industry and Transport Canada is currently looking at the standards that these cars are converted under....which means that soon (I have this on good terms from a good source) that only the franchised dealers will be able to convert vehicles for importation with OEM parts specifically ordered and 'audited' for the process by the government.

    The implications of that are ominous.

    Anyways....

    Best of luck regardless.....!!
     
  17. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    Well said dude. You've got my vote!

    My neighbour is possibly bringing a 355 Spyder from down south. We'll see in a few months what happens.

    Vasco.R
     
  18. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    Isn't it just beauuutiful!?! And it's got luggage and all. ;)

    Sweeeet!

    Vasco.R
     
  19. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 21, 2000
    6,403
    B.C., Canada
    #16 Peter, Nov 26, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Actually many models are eligeable for import into Canada. If you're looking at the .pdf list available from Transport Canada, the models marked off with: " ** " need the required uprated bumpers and those marked with: " **> " need both the bumpers and child seat tetherage. Nothing mentions DTRL.

    The .pdf file I have about this is from last year, but I'll upload here so you can take a look for yourself.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. Kewpie

    Kewpie Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2004
    597
    canada
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    FMoV listed their 2004 575M F1 at $370869:
    2004 FERRARI 575M F1 , 100 kms Rossa Corsa on Tan Leather, Brake Calipers Red Color, Daytona Seats, ? Scuderia Ferrari ? Shields, Modular Rims 19, Rear Shelf Leather, Hi FI Sound w/ CD, Stitching in Red Colour, . $370869. Stk# F04017. *Tel: 604-215-8778

    on Ferrari's US official site's marketplace, the first 575M listed with a price shows USD$217,500. (others are similar at low USD$2xx,000)

    so let's use their advertised price and an exchange at 1.17 = $255,183.35 CAD

    so there's a $15K bumper? fine.
    transport? of course it deserve an enclosed transport.
    inspection? not difficult if you know what you are doing.
    Tax and duty? 17% if you buy in province... how much is duty for an italian car? total would be less than 17%, and that is on your $217K USD.

    worry about not able to import it?
    pass the worry to the seller (F of Philly). They should get the letter of compliance for you, get the bumper ordered for you, etc etc.
    write in the contract that the car should meet RIV standards.

    I am SURE if you buy from the US for this car now, you will not regret it.

    although KDS is in the business, i can tell you that the market will not be able to adjust $100k in 12 months. So, in a year, the ferrari car values in canada will crash to compete with the US? or car prices in US will soar? if he meant the prices will adjust so that it is not as attractive, certainly.

    either way, you saved your money now.
     
  21. tsang85

    tsang85 Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2004
    361
    Vancouver
    I like the way you think Kewpie. thats what i had in mind. either way, i think im gonna take a look in the states as their are a LOT more choices than here.
     
  22. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    .......and lose later.
     
  23. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    To me that car becomes a "grey market car" and one must think of the long term just like with any other large investments we all make. If you buy this f-car sure you MAY save a couple of bucks now. But let's just say for whatever reason you need or want to sell it later for whatever reason. If you try and trade it in the dealers (Like the few i've worked for) will either shy away or offer you stupid money. Or if you try a private sale but the customer who is cautious (like we all are when buying these beloved cars) will also shy away from this "grey market car".

    On that note....

    Euro cars are also grey cars of course. But to me, they are worth bringing over because the eurospek cars are always a lil' more different......a little more fun ;). Just enough changes to justify bringing it over. Such as my German BB512 I have on consignment. It goes Vroom Vroom with a slight German note! LOL. ;)

    Just my 2 cents boys.

    Vasco.R
     
  24. MayB1Day

    MayB1Day Karting
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    Oct 25, 2004
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    Sure - they will always have that mark against them. But practically speaking they're the same car, which should limit the discount. Furthermore, saving money up front and loosing it later is always better than paying more upfront to get more back later, unless of course the loss from the first scenario is greater than a 7% or so gain off off the upfront saved.

    But its all somantics. Its about getting into a car that you love moreso than anything else isnt it? If that car is avail in the US, and not in Can, then it *looks* like there may be a financially favourable situation as well, but bringing across the car of your dreams is the most important part of the equation, IMO.
     
  25. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    Kewpie has it right. It's nonsense to think that if you "pay more now, you'll get more later". Uh, no thanks.
     
  26. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Kewpie....

    All I can say to your comment regarding 'market adjustments' is this...........

    I have a 'Canadian spec' 2002 Porsche GT2 for sale...........it's dropped $75K CAD in the last 8-10 months. So.....the market adjusts....believe me......(if you were around in this business in 1988-1992 like I was you'd have seen the Ferrari market crash that took place back then.....it was spectacular !!)......thankfully I don't consign the $200K cars......that was a big lesson learned there let me tell you............heh.

    But having addressed that......let me ask a question.......if you think that there is no difference at RESALE TIME to the prospective client looking to purchase a $100K+ exotic car (and that is the segment we are talking about....not the 3-400K stuff like the 'new' 575 example...but I can address that if you wish)......and this buyer is looking at identical US and CAD models that are the same price....and he is in Canada....which one do you think he is going to buy ??? Or for that matter.....which one would you buy ? Answer honestly............I've sold over 1,000 high end cars and seen this scenario many a time.....

    Where did you order your Quattroporte anyways ? In Canada ?

    They buy the CAD car 95% of the time.....and vice versa in the US when faced with this scenario.......so in order to sell the US car you have to do what ?.....why you drop the price......

    Now you may say it doesn't make sense....that the numbers speak for themselves...and they do....I don't disagree with you or anyone else here in that regard.....but what you haven't seen and understood over almost my two decades of flogging chariots is that the psychology of the purchaser doesn't work that way.

    Eastern cars do not fly in western Canada unless they are cheaper....Quebec cars are saleproof.........why ? A bias against things eastern and from Quebec...even thought the cars are the same.....(we're talking F-cars...P-cars...BMW...MB...etc....here). Does that make sense....no it doesn't. But perception in the marketplace is reality.........

    Now Clax bought a new Murci as we all know......and he still hasn't posted those pictures yet.....(must be too busy driving it.....lucky dog)....in Canada from a dealer that I do business with......so why he is a proponent of going south I do not know...Clax can you tell me ? We had this conversation more than once back when we were looking at the deal in the US and you ended up buying in Canada......how come ?
     
  27. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    No one (at least im not) saying that you will "get more later". What I am saying is that you will LOSE more later.

    I have been kicking around in the business only a fraction of the time compared to Keith and some others. But i have learned from some of the "bigger boys" here in Toronto who actually write the big checks for such cars and I know that the check is much harder to write for some car that has poped up on our market from down south (If they even write a check).

    But what I also would like to add is that this does not pertain to all cars. The muscle cars and other classic and even the older Ferrari's etc etc. are a different story in my opinion. Those "niche" and ultra rare cars are always welcome. Simply because of rarity.

    But if we are talking about a 360CS or 550....Don't think so. There was or is a rare GT3 kicking around Toronto that no one wanted and it was cheap. Why you ask.....it's a U.S car.
     
  28. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Forgot to add one thing in response to Kewpie's post......a dealer in the US will tell you that they will not certify the car for another country nor will they do the work. No dealer would expose themselves to the legal laibility....let alone the brain damage of merely attempting to get it done.

    I have also had people buy vehicles from me and ship them south....they have asked me to inquire if the dealership that I worked at would do what was necessary.....and the answer was absolutely not. You pay for the car....and when you drive off the lot it's your problem.

    Tried that.....been there.....done that......
     

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