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612 discharging conundrum

Discussion in '612/599' started by 599_GTO, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. 599_GTO

    599_GTO Karting

    Mar 7, 2018
    163
    Full Name:
    J.S.
    Friends,

    Happy New Year again! I hope the new decade has started well for you all.

    I wanted to ask for any advice on a bothersome issue with my 2007 612 HGTS with 18500 km.
    Last summer I drove the car sporadically (as usual) but it was always kept on a CTEK MXS 5.0 charger constantly when not being driven.

    On one occasion in June however, I drove the car with my parents and parked it up as usual. When I returned 10 days later, the CTEK charger was flashing with a warning indicating that “no battery was found”. I assumed that the battery being an original Ferrari one had of course seen it’s last days and on the advice of 360Marnix here on FChat purchased a great Bosch battery. Changing the battery of course did the trick and the car was mobile again. I drove the car in August a reasonable amount, had it serviced and then parked it up, again connecting it to the CTEK.

    When I went back in September I was stunned to see the same recurring issue... the CTEK charger indicated that it could not find the (new) battery. I assumed this might be an issue with the inbuilt charging port in the 612 (although the fuse for that connector looked fine) so I reattached the CTEK charger with crocodile clips directly to the battery terminals. Again, no battery found!

    Does anyone have any thoughts? What could be draining the battery faster than the mains are charging it? Why should the battery not be detected whether charged or empty? The car is kept in a garage, covered but unlocked and unalarmed (given previous access issues when the battery first went dead) so the alarm system is certainly not the culprit.

    Any ideas? Thanks all.
     
  2. 360Marnix

    360Marnix Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2017
    318
    Holland
    Maybe try the crocodille clamps on an other car to make sure the ctek charger is okay?

    My former 360 had a ctek charger with problems. I bought a new one and it was okay again.
     
    George Vosburgh likes this.
  3. brogenville

    brogenville Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2012
    273
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robin
    You need to first determine if you do have an unacceptable battery drain. Connect a multimetre in series on the battery terminals and come back to us with the current measured. From memory, a few tens of milliamps is fine, but hundreds of milliamps would indicate a fault.

    If there is a significant current draw, then the usual procedure to narrow down where the fault is, is to pull fuses out one by one until you find which circuit is the culprit.

    Other possibilities: another dud battery? dud CTEK?
     
  4. 599_GTO

    599_GTO Karting

    Mar 7, 2018
    163
    Full Name:
    J.S.
    Hi Robin, hi 360,

    Thanks guys.
    CTEK definitely fine as I have two and both are doing the same thing.
    Battery worked fine when first connected and seeing as the same sequence of events had happened on the two batteries, I think a drain is the likely explanation.

    Sadly I am technically incompetent so can try and buy a multimetre and see if there is a drain. However, if the battery is now dead, will I get any readings anyway or do I need to do all this once a new battery is in place?

    Robin, I am from the UK and get back often enough. Where would you recommend going to for a good multimetre?

    Thanks!
     
  5. brogenville

    brogenville Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2012
    273
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robin
    Maplins were a good bet before they sadly closed. You would certainly get something good at RS Components if you have one near you, but you’re probably as well to just go on eBay/Amazon.

    Fluke make excellent multi-metres, but if you just want something basic and functional, you could go into B&Q and pick up whatever they have and it will do the job.
     
    599_GTO likes this.
  6. 599_GTO

    599_GTO Karting

    Mar 7, 2018
    163
    Full Name:
    J.S.
    Robin, thank you so much. I also loved Maplins :-(
    I will pick something up then and let you know how it goes.
    I think I will need another new battery in the car to get it going before I can diagnose the drain however.

    We should catch up in the UK at some point
     
    brogenville likes this.
  7. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 5, 2002
    18,914
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    While this may not be your issue, I (and others) have had the CTEK charter fail in a way that causes it to kill the battery. Something to be aware of.
     
    George Vosburgh likes this.
  8. 360Marnix

    360Marnix Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2017
    318
    Holland
    You have at least 24 months warranty on the battery. The supplier of the battery should be able to test the battery to be sure. To be honest I never heard of a failed S5 battery. It is more likely a current leak drained the battery.
     
  9. 599_GTO

    599_GTO Karting

    Mar 7, 2018
    163
    Full Name:
    J.S.
    Hi Don,

    Thanks for this. I wonder if that’s what it is because it isn’t detecting even the dead battery through the crocodile clips or through the Ferrari battery port connection, plus the same pattern of events has happened twice, first with the original Ferrari battery which was seemingly fine until I connected the CTEK charger, and now again on the new Bosch one. I will try and get hold of another CTEK charger and see if it detects and recharges the flat battery.
    This honestly sounds like the most plausible explanation given that if the CTEK charger was functioning any drain would have to be greater than the voltage being fed through the mains!

    Cheers!
     
    donv likes this.
  10. 599_GTO

    599_GTO Karting

    Mar 7, 2018
    163
    Full Name:
    J.S.
    Thanks 360!
    I bought the battery online so it might be difficult to get them to honour such a warranty or even test the battery as there is no physical store. I do agree that the battery seems like an excellent one (and I appreciate your recommendation)
     
  11. brogenville

    brogenville Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2012
    273
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robin
    I have a couple of CTEK chargers (actually they’re Lidl chargers with CTEK innards)- both very good smart chargers. They both sometimes need a few clicks of the mode button before they kick in, or sometimes I find a lingering click is needed before they start charging.
    Certainly worth checking the car, but here’s hoping it’s just the charger!
     
  12. 599_GTO

    599_GTO Karting

    Mar 7, 2018
    163
    Full Name:
    J.S.
    Hey Robin,

    I do cycle through the mode button too so that it goes through car, motorcycle, AGM and Recond mode before coming back to car, but I have never tried a lingering click. Hmmm... will be trying that before buying a new charger. And yes, I too am really really hoping it’s just a faulty charger and not anything else.
     
  13. 360Marnix

    360Marnix Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2017
    318
    Holland
    Something interesting my collegea engineers came up with: My original Ferrari battery was doing odd things. I showed them the battery today including the Ferrari (Ctek) charger. On the side of the charger is written: only for lead acid batteries.
    An AGM battery is NOT a lead acid battery. I my case they are sure the charger killed the battery.

    The battery is killed, so I have to buy a new one. (Bosch off course) If I choose a S5 A13 (AGM) I should use an other charger. If I want to proceed using my Ferrari charger, I should buy a "normal" battery (S5 013)

    I don't know which charger you use, but I know you have the S5 A13 battery. Maybe it got killed by your charger to.

    The "funny" thing is that Ferrari sells these batteries and they sell the (wrong) chargers with it.
     
  14. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 19, 2008
    30,961
    Albuquerque, NM
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    AGM batteries are indeed lead acid batteries, just the acid is carried in the absorbed glass mat to prevent leakage and allow some batteries to be used in any orientation. Usually, though, you do need a charger that has an AGM setting on it since the two differ in charging strategy.
     
  15. 599_GTO

    599_GTO Karting

    Mar 7, 2018
    163
    Full Name:
    J.S.
    Hi 360, hi Terry,

    Thanks for the information guys.
    I still haven’t solved my problem but I know the CTEK MXS 5.0 is working as I connected it to my BMW DD and it lit up normally. The MXS 5.0 also has an AGM setting on it... so once I get to the bottom of this I will only use that setting with the Bosch.

    I have a NOCO GB70 jump starter but its cables are short so it’s hard to jump the battery while it is in place in the car. When I did try, it seems the battery volts were below 2v as the NOCO wouldn’t start the battery. There is an override function for forcing power into a completely dead battery but my strategy now, when I get the time will be to get the battery out of the car, override jump it out of the car (just to be safe) and when it has some volts in it I will connect it back to the CTEK to see if it can bring it back to a full charge and back to health.

    I must still have some sort of serious electrical drain somewhere though... although why or how that can drain a battery that is connected to the mains via a trickle charger is still beyond me!
     

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