'69 365 GTC Tyre Rubbing Fix?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by VincentLuong24, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. VincentLuong24

    Jun 30, 2014
    16
    After searching around the forums a bit, I realized that front tire rubbing on the heater ducting on a GTC is pretty common. Just curious if anyone has found a solution to prevent this issue or not.
     
  2. MiuraP400

    MiuraP400 Formula Junior
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    The duct has a wire in it. Since it barely makes contact you can simply apply some pressure in the location it contacts and bend the wires to change the shape of the duct slightly so the tire no longer contacts.

    Cheers Jim
     
  3. Longstone Tyres

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  4. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    #4 TTR, Apr 1, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
    This is quite common on 365 GTB/4s (Daytonas) also. Possibly more common than many realize. Having researched and studied this problem on Daytonas for over a decade now, I believe its caused by couple contributors. Originally designed/engineered spring rates ended up too weak (possibly due to cars ending up weighting perhaps more than originally intended) and subsequent front suspension ride hight & steering alignment specs given in factory literature are/were based on those original designs. The fact that springs and many, if not most, related components have now "aged" 40+ years doesn't help either.
    Ironically, one could say that if the front tires on a Daytona don't rub, perhaps its not set up correctly. ;)

    Timo

    P.S. I'm developing/working on some "corrective" components allowing the use of O.E. suspension and hoping to finalize their R & D within next few months.
     
  5. dhodge

    dhodge Rookie

    Dec 15, 2004
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    Miami
    I've had this problem too and it drives me crazy. I've replaced the vent hose a few times and I really flatten it to a discoid shape against the inner fender. I think it's because of sagging springs as suggested. Running XWX with Campy ten hole mags.
     
  6. John B

    John B Formula 3
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    May 27, 2003
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    I have it as well. Compressing the tube made it better, but it's not completely gone. Only happens when I turn full lock. On Borranis w XWX 205 14's.
     
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  8. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    I would approach this issue first by establishing whether the suspension or "ride height" is set (in)adequately and/or if the springs have "collapsed" by measuring and comparing to specifications given in the service manual.
    I don't have a 365 GTC manual on hand, but I know my 330 GTC and 365 GTB/4 manuals both have 'em all in there.
    Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think flattening fresh air vent tubes is going to fix any potential suspension problems.
    Timo
     
  9. GSJFerrari

    GSJFerrari Karting
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    #8 GSJFerrari, Apr 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    What has worked for me is to use shims (like in the picture) on the shock absorbers, as long as all other components are in proper condition. This will help the common sagging down of the nose and rubbing in different areas. Even with new springs and shocks I installed on the car it was still sitting low in the nose after time. The shims seem to be a long lasting solution
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  10. TTR

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    Greg, that's good to know. My approach is similar but from a different "angle" and hopefully should allow "fine tuning" to proper ride height (even regardless of the condition of other components). I too have attempted to correct this problem with new springs, etc but the best results I ever got was about 20-25% closer to adequate.
    I have had my "corrective component prototypes ready for awhile, but haven't had time to collect enough data for marketing them yet.
    Timo
     
  11. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 Formula 3
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    #10 intrepidcva11, Apr 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had tire rubbing on mine when steering was on full lock, but it was due to fact that my 365GTC had special 15" Campagnolos with 215VR15 Pirellis, thus 2X oversized.
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  12. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula Junior
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    Were they 215/70VR15 Pirelli Cinturato? Or was it full profile 215VR15

    Fitting 15" wheels with 215/70vr15 is a sort of racing alternative, because it is the same diameter as the 205Vr14.

    Would people want Cinturato tyres for these cars?

    There is a chance Pirelli might do 215/70VR15 again. However, I think they may have also fitted full profile 215VR15 tyres to the rear of some cars in the 60's and I often wonder if it is a tyre that is worth making again.


    Www.cinturato.net
     
  13. VincentLuong24

    Jun 30, 2014
    16
    Hello all,
    first of all thank you so much for all the replies! Sorry for being MIA for so long without any reply. Things came up and I had to put off finding the solution for this issue. After returning now to trying to fix this problem again I came across my of thread completely forgetting that I had started one. To answer some questions, I am on the stock 205 VR 14 tires. I still am having the issue and am curious if anyone has now found a solution. Thanks again!
     
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  15. VincentLuong24

    Jun 30, 2014
    16
    May I ask how you went about mounting these shims in specifics? Thanks!
     
  16. VincentLuong24

    Jun 30, 2014
    16
    Any progress on this "corrective" parts you were developing? If so, I would love to purchase a kit from you!
     
  17. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Hi Vincent,
    I have developed them further with couple of sets being used in cars already and couple of more getting ready for road testing soon, but my research data is on 365GTB/4s only, so to get your GTC sorted, you'd have to send your car to me or we will have to do some R & D between us.
    If interested PM your contact details.
     
  18. xs10shl

    xs10shl Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2003
    1,993
    San Francisco
    I had considered at one point to simply bolt on a metal sheet covered in undercoating, just below the duct. It would not stop the rubbing, but it would keep the duct intact. A little spray-on undercoating would re-cover any bald spots.
     
  19. TTR

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    #17 TTR, Jan 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
    Here's couple of "before & after" samples of 365 GTB/4s with "corrected" suspensions heights utilizing components I've developed to be incorporated with OEM parts to set a car to its "designed"/"intended"(?) ride height, not the (possibly incorrect?) set up many, perhaps even all came from the factory when new due to what I believe to be a slight design vs. manufacturing "flaw"**


    1. Very low mileage, late production car sitting with unloaded curb weight on fully serviced but un-modified suspension and original springs (please, ignore non-OEM & front-to-rear un-matching tire/wheel combos). Note how high into the wheel well front tire is (yes, it was rubbing when cornering at speeds or driving over a bump or curb.)
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    2. Same car as in #1. with my component modifications and simulated "fully loaded" curb weight. According to factory engineering specs, this is the stance or dynamic ride height "Daytona" was designed/intended to have with two passengers, full luggage & fuel tanks. Note the front tire/wheel well spacing (not rubbing) and car sits/travels level (like a bullet or a train) and both, front & rear suspensions are in the middle of their dynamic operating travel (just like they should be on any car under same circumstances).
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    3. Same as in #1 & #2.
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    4. High mileage example with un-modified, but fully rebuilt suspension & original springs (again, please ignore non-OEM rear tire/wheel size), unloaded curb weight.
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    5. Same car as in #4 after my modifications with simulated "fully loaded" curb weight and proper(?) ride height.
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    Since my modification components may require two or three disassembly/reassembly attempts on each car to properly dial them in, I haven't decided yet if I should offer it as a "in-house" service only for now or try to deal with likely required long distance consultation with the car owners and/or their mechanics.

    **I wish to clarify that all this is just based on my personal observations from researching, restoring and working on these and other vintage cars for several decades now.
    Also, I was never around or near Maranello when these cars were made nor do I have any formal chassis/suspension engineering education or degree, so if any one is able to refute my theories, I'll be happy to hear from them and stop wasting time on this.

    P.S. To OP (or any other 330/365 GTC owner or mechanic): Being that these cars seem to feature almost identical suspension, I would need technical assistance to establish potential solution on what maybe caused by same or similar design/manufacturing "flaw".
    Any volunteers may PM me for contact info and confidentiality.
     
    VincentLuong24 likes this.
  20. VincentLuong24

    Jun 30, 2014
    16
    TTR,
    once again thanks for the reply! I will be PM'ing you now.
     
  21. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Replied.
     
  22. trpdds

    trpdds Rookie

    Apr 16, 2011
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    I had the same problem when fitting OEM Michelins to my first 330 GTC. Took it to Mike Moal at Moal's in Oakland. They rolled the edge of the front fenders slightly and expertly touched up the paint. Never rubbed again, no need to mess with the suspension. They are wonderful @Moals. Tim Pearson
     
  23. TTR

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    I do hope you're kidding !?!
     

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