777 crash at SFO

Not true.

Stragglers from off airport property maybe got there 20 min later.


Many emergency people there long before plane finished evac.


Police or Fire were throwing knives to stews to cut stuck seat belts to free passengers. Good thing there are no sharp objects on a plane.


Fire truck picking it's way through a debris field to get close enough to actually do some good ran someone over. And it was one, not two. That happened while there were people still on board. They were concentrating on getting to the plane. No one has even suggested fault of the truck crew. They reported themselves by the way.



Right now in the absence of anything new to say the local news is coming up with all nature of crap.

It's just that....crap.


That girls death is on the flight crew and the flight crew only.

 

I listened to the ATC tape. The emergency vehicles were rolling within seconds.

 

There is no justification. However, a US cabin crew would most likely have begun an evacuation on their own initiative, right away.

I'm sure the cockpit crew was stunned and in a bit of shock, and it doesn't surprise me that it took them a bit to figure out where they were and what was going on.

 

I think the callers were looking for ambulances, not firefighters.

The fire trucks may have got there within a. Knute or two, but apparently the ambulances did not arrive for up to 20 minutes, at least as the people near the original impact site were concerned.

Kai

 

They are commenting on a woman on a 911 tape. It was all over the news this morning. She called for MORE ambulances. There were more people injured than there were EMT's at a very early stage.

I guess she never heard of triage

 

Well, RFdriver, neither one of us were there - but I just saw the news crawler indicate that only FIVE ambulances (and other emergency vehicles) were initially dispatched.

It is possible that they just got overwhelmed by the number of injuries.

But I hate to get off on this side-track. This never would have happened without monumental pilot error.

 

Perhaps the delay was the ambulance personnel had to pass through T&A screening. Take keys, scalpels out of pockets etc...

 

I lied. My first flight was in 1935 in an Aeronca C-3, second flight was in 1937 in a wheezing OX-5 Waco 10, third flight was in a Waco cabin in 1939, forth flight was in the hopper of a Crop duster's Travel Air, fifth was in a Brunner-Winkle Bird, and then the war came and my next ride was in an AT-7 quickly followed by a C-60 ,B-24, B-17, & B-25. Forgive me for reminiscing.

 

Well, I have been on 10 airliners this year, and on NONE of them was anyone ever asked to raise a window shade!

 

Bob, That is just amazing. To see where aviation has gone since you took your first flight. Just to have been there and seen aviation progress at each step. So out of the 24, 17 and the 25 which one did you like best? I was always so impressed that until the introduction of fly buy wire Boeing used almost the same technology in their aircraft that was used in WW2.

My first flight was at a Van Nuys Airshow. A friend and I washed and waxed the Robertson Spit and for the effort the pilot took us both for up in a Cub. Separately of course, Ill never forget that first flight. It was just a Cub but it was the thrill of a lifetime.

The pilot who was scheduled to make the next U2 flight after Gary Powers was shot down lives next door to a friend in Camarillo. I try not to be a pest but when I see him out front I just can't help from going over and talking to him. I should be taking notes while we are chatting. The history you guys have seen, experienced and made is just unbelievable. My Dad would never talk about WW2. If it wasn't for one of my Dads friends telling us what the old man had been through we wouldn't know the little we do.

Feel free to reminisce anytime, I know myself and the other guys can never get enough of the history you guys have to tell.

 

Bob, I know its a one in a million but I don't suppose you knew a B25 pilot name of Tom Thomson?

 

I didn't fly these airplanes that I mention, I flew in them. I soloed a 55HP '37 Cub in 1946 and flew a lot of little stuff and all the PT's. Then later i flew a bunch of stuff but nothing of importance. I didn't know Tom Thomson but the name is sure familiar. I flew in a B-25 with my brother-in-law and again during the 50th anniversary of the B-17. My all time favorite is the Stearman PT-13 followed by the Cub and Cub Special (PA-11 ?). I did nothing of note, just tried everything that I could and had a lot of enjoyment doing it. Looking way back, I chuckle at that '37 Cub. It had no brakes, a tail skid, and demanded full attention when it was on the ground and rolling and I never thought a thing about it. I learned everything from that little airplane.

 

If she survived the plane crash and then got hit or run over by the fire truck, I don't think the flight crew can be blamed 100%. Could they have announced for everyone to be in a staging area? To look out for emergency vehicles? Sure. But that does not absolve the driver of the truck of all blame.

Terrible tragedy.

 

I've been on airlines that not only asked you to raise the shades but also wanted you to put your shoes back on. I forgot who that was.

The most amazing airline ride was in 1985 from Islamabad to Jiddah. We had just dropped of the Saudi Army (who just happened to be Pakistani) and had to position back to the "Kingdom". It was an old PIA 707, and after the doors closed we (my crew) noticed there seemed to be more pax than seat. We were pretty sure that they would not leave the gate like this. We were wrong. They taxied toward the take off position with about 50 people still standing. The aircraft took off and those standing just sort of "surfed the take off". Once airborne it seemed like everybody got out of their seats. We (my crew) set there in amazement as some of the pax walked up and down the aisle selling sandwiches, souvenirs, playing guitars etc. All looking for money. The creepiest thing was the monkey. With his little monkey hands jumping from row to row begging for money. The landing was the repeat of the take off!

Biob

 

Just the opposite experience on Southwest connecting through Phoenix a couple of weeks ago. Ambient was about 112F and prior to landing we were asked to close the shades to help keep the plane cool inside while it was parked on the ground. Can't recall ever being asked to do either one before, but I prefer to have visibility on touchdown and take off so if I'm at the window it is definitely open. I also cinch my seat belt prior to each which is another good practice.

>8^)
ER

 

The landing gear "problem" turned out to be a faulty microswitch not illuminating the down & locked bulbs. The gear was actually down and locked. But they had unusual vibrations and sounds when they first selected the gear down so they felt it was a serious problem.

The pilots decided to abort their landing and go into a holding pattern to diagnose the issue.

While holding McBroom became obsessed with the issue even as their fuel dwindled. He was known as a tough Captain, that was a "I give the commands, you listen" type. His crew members alerted him to the dwindling fuel supply but he ignored them until it was too late.

That's why it led to CRM development by United. In a sense it is similar to Asiana. McBroom wouldn't take advice from crew members that spoke up but did not insist on landing sooner, just as the Asiana crew wouldn't speak up in time and force a go around.

All pilots on the flightdeck should be able to call out a go-around that is immediately followed. That includes those sitting in jump seats. Some airlines have this policy, all should.

 

I knew a B-24 pilot named Tom Thompson... father of a friend of mine.

Pacific theater.

Not B-25, though.

 

Virgin Atlantic does this.

 

I remember those days, and I have been on some crazy flights in the Middle East and India in the seventies as well...but nothing close to a monkey! You win.

Some wild tales out of African aviation on PPrune too. Everything from being targeted by friendly air forces (who couldn't shoot straight, luckily) to loose lions and snakes to people defecating in the aisles.

 

heard a report from the head of the response team ( fire chief I think ) that all the ambulances where ready and available but they where held at a staging area at a safe distance until the fire crew etc determined it was safe to approach the wreckage. They where out of site of the passengers but where on scene before the last people had evacuated the aircraft. If you listen to ATC you can here that rescue is on the way before the plane has barely stopped moving.

Again this is another instance of the media looking for the sensational headline.

Same people that put a guy in a 172 with an airline captains uniform on to land at SFO to show how it should be done. Did anyone else notice that he did a "no flap" landing ??? not sure that's what Cessna recommend how it should be done let alone Boeing

 

You can do a no-flap landing in any plane. And especially a C172 on a 11000'+ runway.

It was funny that the news was too cheap to pony up for a plane that could at least do the SFO slam-dunk approach. 11000' 270 degree descending turn at an airspeed that is greater than the little cessna could ever hope to get.

The top speed of the cessna is about the minimum approach speed of the 777.

 

Maybe off point, but I thought you cant do a no flap landing ina heavy big jet because the approach speed is so high that the wheels will come off the plane and the bounce would put you off the other end of the runway.

 

Reanimation video....
"This detailed animation depicting Saturday’s crash at San Francisco International Airport was created by a former pilot who runs a computer animation company that specializes in re-creating air crashes."



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhoAfgYhhs0&feature=player_embedded]Asiana 214 ver 2 - YouTube[/ame]

 

In some planes & configs it might be considered an abnormal op, but flaps break so there will be a procedure for no flap landings in every plane.

I think tires are certified to around 205 kts, that's probably around a no flap landing in a 777 at landing weight.

 

Landing speed is determined by true airspeed and any wind. You can be at 200 kts, and a ground speed of 150 if you've got sufficient headwind. I landed one time at Truckee, with a ground speed of less than 20 kts. I touch down at 90 kts, so we had a 70 kt headwind. Felt like we were walking speed.

Art