812 VS Rumors

few days ago a fchat user stated that '' you should buy the tdf version of 812''. According to him/her ; It's perfect in every aspect

 

I guessed that 812VS will be hybrid.

 

So if they produce an 812 VS nobody in UK (10% of global market) can get one ?
I appreciate the reply but it does no harm to think about things from a non US perspective.
PS.My post was "tongue in cheek" as we seem to have strayed from subject of thread.

 

And

I know, your post was to get us back on track, definitely strayed a bit

I think because of the uncertainty of potential excessive import duties (10% tariff) (brexit) Ferrari has pulled back from UK. Because Ferrari has not done the same with any other RHD country that's the only conclusion I can arrive at. I find no special emissions restrictions unique to the UK startingin 2020, but, maybe there are some? Would you know?

this article depicts challenges:

https://www.acea.be/press-releases/article/stable-eu-auto-market-in-view-for-2019-with-co2-and-trade-challenges-ahead

of note:

“The prospect of a no-deal Brexit still has not been ruled out. On the contrary, this scenario looks more likely than ever before,” Tavares warned. Hence, auto manufacturers are being forced to take drastic contingency measures – with some seeking warehouse space to stockpile parts, others planning a temporary post-Brexit production shutdown, and several companies even cutting back their investments in the UK.

 

I would just be amazed (and disappointed) if a VS was produced and UK did not get any.

 

Have I missed something? Where is the evidence that Ferrari has pulled back from the UK?



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You haven't missed anything........just silly forum ramblings

The UK is Ferrari's second largest market, they are going to pull away from it.........yeah right.

 

LOL one has to wonder where this BS comes from. 812 isn’t available in UK because production is completely sold out for 3yrs.


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this thread containing this post:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/146505119/

Mar 14, 2019
Dealers were given the go ahead to sell 812's and Porto's last week from Ferrari, so that is why quite a few have suddenly come on the market. Some dealers were running 2 demo's so they may be unloading them as well?
They still insist that the books are closed on the 812 though.

and order book closed would mean to me the factory will no longer provide allocations

and, why else would Ferrari instruct dealers to sell their demos (yes, dealers regularly will sell demos but this looks to be something else)

because the factory does not provide allocations "years in advance", if no more allocations will be forthcoming, what else could it be other than discontinued?

(i.e. just because dealers may have a pile of orders in their own queue does not affect the how/when the factory will issue allocations and therefore request a dealer to submit an order; so, if the order book is closed, all allocations have been distributed)

of course this is pure speculation but seems to have a solid foundation...

 

There is no such thing as that is not possible, the factory does not grant allocations "years in advance", a dealer can take as many orders and deposits as they like, dealers can also refuse new orders/deposits as well, but there will be churn in that list of orders given sufficient time (people dropping out, etc). Anyone who thinks it is sold out for 3 years may not understand the process...

 

I don’t think you’re right. I placed my order at the customer Maranello event - I had a VIP invite. That was February 2017. My car, and others at the event from my dealer, are late 2018/2019 deliveries. I was among the very first to place an order, got confirmed a car in 2017 but only get it in 2019. Anyone ordering after that will get their cars later, presumably 2020+. The intended production for the UK is sold out not discontinued.

 

The only reason your car would be produced that slowly are its options. I presume your car went to 10green status in 2017 or early 2018?

My comments are regarding new allocations, Ferrari does not plan allocations years (or even a year) in advance.

However, this is quite different than length of time required to complete an allocation. Many options including requests for override can take years to process and finally produce a car. For instance, painted shields will take many extra months. And if the car has unique materials that takes more time (such as exotic skins). Special paint colors. Cars with painted stripes, additional time (as this is not a regularly available option on the 812...), special constructions, unique carbon fiber, etc. I presume your build has one more special options requiring a specific factory approvals or Atelier or Tailor Made.

Otherwise, there would be no cars in the UK before yours since you were apparently one of the first to order. Yet there are many 812s in the UK already (ahead of yours, likely ordered after yours).

So, regarding your final comment, what exactly would be the difference between 'discontinued' and 'intended production' ? The effect, I believe, would be the same, and it would presume to indicate nearly all UK orders are in some way special orders that will take years to complete, not that that is unlikely but seems improbable...

 

I really am not following your logic nor do I understand the point you are trying to make.

 

Thanks for that, so, point is, if Ferrari is no longer providing dealers with allocations (for any 812) then it is discontinued (cars in production/allocated will be completed).

That's how Ferrari works...

They typically do not announce the end of a model, they simply stop providing allocations.

For instance, did Ferrari announce the end of the F12?

No, they simply stopped providing allocations for it.

So, from my understanding, Ferrari is no longer providing allocations for the 812 to UK dealers, hence, discontinued.

Maybe you can call your local Ferrari (UK) dealer and ask if they will be awarded any further 812 allocations and let us know what you find?

 

Your debate is pretty pointless. If cars are still being built and delivered into the market then it’s not discontinued. On the other hand if one cannot order one because all future production slots are filled then it’s sold out.


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Because there are other RHD markets and they are not being reported as 'sold out' (Australia, Singapore, etc), then what would be special otherwise about UK market? Other than RHD what is unique about UK market, brexit, and as I noted earlier, many much larger automobile manufacturers are essentially pulling out of that market and maybe Ferrari is too..

https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/brexit-auto-industry/

page 9 here:

https://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/Brexit-facts_figures_March_2019.pdf

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2019/04/10/no-deal-brexit-could-decimate-britains-auto-industry/#dec90445c065

from link above:
...Firms may instead choose to establish small-scale assembly operations in the U.K. for local sales to circumvent U.K. import duties on vehicles, ...

Compounded confusions exposed here:

https://www.everythingfx.com/Auto_Prices_to_Rocket_Under_a_No_Deal_Brexit-206-forex-technical-article

VAG's warning:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47270616


https://corporate.ferrari.com/sites/ferrari15ipo/files/ferrari_nv_annual_report_12.31.2018.pdf

Page 14 from above:

However, any adverse effect of Brexit on us or on global or regional economic or market conditions could adversely affect our business, results of operations and financial condition as customers may reduce or delay spending decisions on our products.



Anyway, that's the current naval gazing in my mind.

 

I am quite amazed that the UK time from order is so long, especially as our mutual friend got his car in SA quite some time ago. I wonder why UK production was so delayed. Asd for no VS for the UK market, that's a complete joke, Ferrari would never excluded such an important market.

One thing I do wonder is the % allocation to relatively new markets...

 

I got my 812 in the UK in Dec and I was defs not the first. Cars started being delivered in Q2/2018


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The UK is one of the largest and richest markets in Europe. All manufacturers want to sell here because UK consumers buy large quantities of cars in very high specification compared to most other markets in Europe (Germany is the exception, being the other ‘rich’ EU market). Nissan and Honda are pulling out of production in the UK for reasons not to do with Brexit, despite what is said and reported. The reason they are leaving is very simple; the EU has just done a trade deal with Japan meaning that Japanese produced cars can soon enter the European market duty free. Replacement Honda and Nissan models will be built in Japan because Japanese companies prefer to build there. If the issue really was to do with Brexit then they would be relocating elsewhere inside the EU. They are not.

Manufacturers complain publicly about Brexit because they don’t want the aggravation this might cause to their component supply (which is actually a smaller issue than is being portrayed when you consider the details) so they try and blame Brexit whenever they can for this and other reasons. JLR for example are seeing sales collapse in China which is affecting their profits to the degree of £1bn+, plus the government has been briefing against diesel sales with customers suddenly very nervous about diesel and as a result JLR are laying off many staff - yet they still include Brexit as a reason for their difficulties - why? The economy has been doing well, we have full employment and Brexit has not even happened yet! It deflects media attention from some deep-rooted problems they have.

My company has thrived over 40 years importing cars and paying full duty. No need for us to have a plant in the UK. Duties add about 4-5% on the price of a car, whereas the exchange rate can add easily between 30% and 100%, so it’s a much bigger influencer. And guess what, the weak pound makes producing in and exporting from the UK very attractive - JLR’s coffers will have been boosted by millions since the 2016 referendum due to the weak pound. All is not what you think you see or read.

 

Applies to most news err. fake news......

 

Personally I think the reason 812 delivery has been slow in the U.K. is due to the weak pound.

Ferrari S.p.a sells the cars the Ferrari North Europe who then distribute the allocations to North Europe dealers.

The 812 is only about £10k more expensive than the F12 was and the F12 price was unchanged over 5 years so not much of an increase really since 2013.

However, the pound was about 10 to 20% stronger back then which means that FNE will make more money selling 812s in other markets than the U.K. when converted to Euros.

Hope that makes sense.

 

My understanding is that this is spot on.Apparently their hedge was not effective when pound devalued following Brexit vote.
Contrast with Pista which was announced much later but UK deliveries started very quickly.

 

Yes, that makes a lot of sense, although when a manufacturer is selling across the world, currencies even themselves out. Most manufacturers tend to adopt a ‘basket-of-currencies’ view and try to make sure they are developing each market’s sales regardless of currency because one day the rates will likely reverse. Manufacturers don’t usually hedge if they are global exporters, it is too expensive and ignores the natural hedge they have from selling everywhere. Sometimes if a manufacturer has a large exposure to one market it might make sense but I doubt that would apply to the UK save for a few obvious short-term hedges they may have taken around the time of the referendum which could reasonably be expected to have been more volatile than usual.

 

Having got some miles on my 812 now I am struggling to imagine a VS version.
Tyres are the limiting factor.
I think there will have to be a huge move forward in tyre technology and/or AWD to get power on road.
Probably more pronounced in the larger front engined cars.
It is huge fun but part of me worries that I am going to end up in a field !!

 

Maybe that is the reason they're doing a spider version in lieu of a performance version Come November we'll find out