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Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.
I know what the Hartley’s are buying them in at
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Well, they did come up with the name La Ferrari...
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Ha! Yes ‘Ferrari LaFerrari’ is cheeky and self referential. It is remarkable because it is also self-reinforcing ... the opposite of ‘Limited to 999 Pieces’ which is a phrase at odds with itself because 1,000 is not an exclusive limited edition and therefore would be a joke inviting ridicule because it’s not what it says it is. By contrast a Ferrari LaFerrari IS what it says it is.
Amazing how you are only focusing on the smaller displacement V12 aspect of what I said when the more important part of what I said is that you are going to get a V12 ‘Roma esque’ replacement for the 812. Prettier. More comfortable. Softer.
Please enjoy it.
Buying or offering because I don’t see any cars and I get the updates...
Those who have the facts can’t necessarily explicitly communicate those facts because IF you have FACTS on this matter today as we speak ... that means you are EXTREMELY close to people at the factory. The fortunate few who have that deep connection to the powers at Maranello can only hint and drop clues in order to maintain plausible deniability and not jeopardize their relationship.
Weighing the totality of the evidence ...
a convergence of saavy member inputs, numerous dealer guidances to multiple potential buyers, knowledge of Ferrari marketing thought process, logic, business deduction and precedence ... I believe what you are outlining is the most probabilistic scenario or something really really close to that.
The bottom line is this:
This car is going to be flipping EPIC!
If you like the 812.
If you like the look of the F12tdf.
If you want something that blows them both away in terms of looks and performance.
If you have a burning desire for a car like that, have a conversation with the sales manager at your local dealership. Soon. When I say things like this, nattering nabobs wheeze that I’m saying it to help drive sales for the factory. Ridiculous. As if. I’m saying this to help people because I know what’s going to happen when this comes out. If there is a small window to squeeze onto the back of the list at this point even that is going to disappear by the time the car is revealed. Ferrari doesn’t need my help generating interest in this car. This VS is going to be mind blowing. I’m telling people this as a service to the community here ... to anyone who thinks they might want a car like this, don’t wait. If you possibly still have a chance, you won’t for very long. By the time it’s out ... it’s gone.
Have you seen the car?
More popcorn on order..
Trust me when I tell you ... it’s EPIC.
Is that really representative? UK is fully locked down, Hartley’s will want a big risk premium across the car because none of us know when we’re going to be ‘let out’, when we’ll be able to go and properly drive, and therefore how long they will hold the car for. The only people selling will be people with very very early supplied cars who just want/need out for whatever reason. That is not the real market. The real market we will see when there is a ‘normal’ level of supply for the car and a ‘normal’ level of demand, without interference from unusual external factors such as lockdown. I personally don’t think the SF90 will be a low depreciation car in Ferrari terms (but could be reasonable), but at the moment we have no real idea.
Thanks for the info, and I hope you are correct. I have been badgering my dealer for this car since I missed out on the tdf a few years back. I suspect I was one or two allocations away. It didn’t help that the owner of the dealership took one for himself, displayed it in the showroom floor, NEVER drove it, then flipped it for a nice profit a year or two later. It burned at me seeing that car every time I went there.
Anyway, the salesman said they submitted my name to the factory for the VS to get an allocation. I can only hope I make the cut this time.
Here is my question since there is a lot of speculation on “limited number produced “ and “limited production time”... Why are 799 cars equal to a limited number but 999 are not? Or 899? Where is the cutoff? And if more cars are produced, why does that diminish the “value” of the car if it it as epic as you say? I am a huge proponent of buying an exotic car and not losing money, but I don’t get why the cutoff for rewarding loyal clients is a limited VS to 799 coupes.
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Ok I will
The hypothesis of a rear V12 for the normal range is therefore abandoned?
Yes. The rear mount 12 cylinder left the normal range in 1995.
Replaced by the 550 Maranello...
Pagani will return with V12 aspirated. Ferrari: why not?
I don't know .. Probably only track car focused, however Ferrari could make limited special series, very few cars.
Could always compensate with fuv / suv / hybrid vehicles
Hypothetically it could always happen but that would be an additional model.
There are some rumors out there of such a car but no hints about it have been dropped by anyone credible, to my knowledge.
Personally, I would love to see it. The once every ten year mid-engine V12 ultra limited special edition basically means that 99.999 % of Ferrari fans can’t have the two best things in the automotive world in the same car ... a Ferrari V12 and a mid-engine for low polar moment of inertia for the ultimate handling dynamics.
I would love to see a regular production mid-engine V12 that was street tuned and near the end of its cycle they do a hardcore VS. The first person on the list for both would be me.
I would love to see something very close to what’s well described by https://karenable.com/before-ice-goes-one-last-wish/
Since I’m peculiar, I would want it as a coupe without a removable top.
Besides the 812 V12, a V12 ICE only send off car that Ferrari will make as many as there are buyers (minus 1 of course). Okay, an aperta ultra limited for the top clients. Then, the end of the V12 ICE only era (sad day if/when that comes).
Great article. Thanks for sharing it.
No, Forza hasn't seen the car - but his analysis skillset is superior to everyone else here.
Ok even though I have explained why this is so on here several times now, since you seem like a super nice person I’m going to elucidate it further and from different angles this time, let’s see if that helps.
Ok let’s say you’re Ferrari and for whatever combination of reasons you have decided to launch a certain model for limited number of production ... how many of them should you restrict the production to?
Ok let’s be honest here ... real real limited production is 499. Don’t @ me with examples of cars they made less than 50 of, for collectors in certain countries. We all know about those. We aren’t talking about those. Also don’t @ me about the F40 which wasn’t a number limited production car but it’s still really special and highly sought after. And so cool. We know. We all get it. We’re not talking about that. We are talking about when you ARE doing a number limited production car how many is too many? 499 is really the upper limit to make something rare enough to be considered a reward to your ultra important and prolific customers around the globe. Witness the numbers for the every 10 year ‘ultimate statement of what Ferrari can create’ hyper cars. The Enzo. The LaFerrari. 499 were made. That is true exclusivity. Ask yourself this ... do you ever ever ever see them making 999 of one of those? Of course not.
Montezemelo ( can Ferrari bring him back please? ) was an absolute master of marketing a prestige brand. He understood that certain numbers were seen as truly exclusive and yet a few hundred more would not be. He basically created this template and this methodology for Ferrari.
Ferrari pushed the envelope with the F12tdf. 799 is the absolute outer limit of what could be considered an exclusive limited edition. It’s really a judgement and proportionality thing that you either get or you don’t.
For example. If Ferrari announced they are making a special edition car limited ‘only’ to 1,850 cars ... do you think you would have billionaire and centimillionaire customers foaming at the mouth, groveling to their dealers for one, getting super upset and indignant if they weren’t invited to spec one of these? No, of course not. Because 1,850 isn’t special enough. And that’s what Ferrari wants. They want billionaires to cry. I’m not kidding. They want ‘l can have anything I want’ billionaires to feel the sting of purchase rejection because they aren’t buying enough cars from the factory. Imagine your friends at the country club remarking on how cool your Ferrari is and you say ‘yeah man they only made 1,850 of these and I got one because I’m so tight with the factory. I mean come on you would sound like a complete twaddle cake.
Once you’re at basically 1,000 or up while it may be still a relatively low number of pieces in the world ... it’s not ‘brag about it’ exclusive. Do you see the difference? 799 is the absolute max you can make and still say it’s exclusive with a straight face. Once you go more than that you’re getting too close to 1,000 from an impression and in a gut feeling sense. And the country club metaphor is a good one because that’s what it’s all about.
IT’S ABOUT BEING IN ... THE CLUB.
The ‘ONLY X AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD HAVE ONE OF THESE’ Club.
Let’s lay out every scenario so that everyone understands this once and for all:
It’s like this:
499 ... very exclusive club unequivocally
599 ... still exclusive club but meaningfully less so now
699 ... yeah still pretty exclusive club globally I guess
799 ... ok still fairly exclusive club but pushing it now
899 ... erm not really an exclusive club any more
999 ... it’s 1,000 now. No longer an exclusive club at all
One of the key characteristics of the new 812 VS has gotten zero attention. The new bespoke Pirelli P Zero tire this new Ferrari will be equipped with...
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I understand your logic but a few things to consider.
- Ferrari has become public since the TdF
- The Icona brand has been created to reward top tier Ferrari customers in between the new hypercar models (rumours of the next Icona model being revealed later this year?)
- The Pista Spider was not numbered despite past (pre IPO) patterns predicting it was going to be
I certainly don’t pretend to know the Ferraris actual strategy but it would not surprise me if the coupe was limited by time (but still quite rare) while the Aperta is limited to a quantity around 599 units.... as well as a new Icona model late this year.