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812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Wheels1

    Wheels1 Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2007
    2,435
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    Grant
    Thats not the way I read it.
    If the car is type approved this year, then the rest of the production run does not have to have the filter added.
     
  2. Shack

    Shack Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 2, 2005
    1,741
    Earth
    There's nothing to build as current 812's don't have a GPF etc. Would be simple to have an option i.e. with or without. In addition should GPF become an issue in a certain Geo - it could be added and programmed later. Just like an option IMO.
     
  3. nads

    nads Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2008
    764
    London, UK
    That's because an 812 is not ULEZ chargeable and neither are the bulk of modern Ferrari's! :D
     
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  4. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Karting

    Oct 3, 2017
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    Porsche is installing a GPF on the remaining 991 GT3 RS's to be produced this year for Europe (991 production ends Q3/Q4 2019). The car entered production in 2018 without GPF's. Seems like a lot of effort for a few months worth of production.
     
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  5. LandandcarsAZ

    LandandcarsAZ Karting

    Jun 14, 2018
    149
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    Robert
    I wonder if European cars will have a unselectable option like we have in the us called “US FUNCTIONAL EQUIPMENT” for European cars. Best way I could see it


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  6. abdulla.alhajri

    abdulla.alhajri Karting

    Jul 16, 2015
    79
    I dont think that is entirely true. I have received my 2019 panamera GTS (4 weeks ago) and it comes with GPF. The matter in question here is if the remainder 812 coupes tobe built will have a GPF taking into consideration the added weight to the car consequently upsetting performance.

    And lets not forget the SF90 Stradale released in 2019 already confirmed with GPF.
     
  7. Horsin'around

    Horsin'around Karting

    Jun 14, 2017
    84
    Do you think owning a 812, then a 812 spider will be the requirement for consideration of the 812tdf?


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  8. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Jaz
    There not required in US
     
  9. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2001
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    Cavallo
    Assuming they actually put this car into production, I've been told owning 812 SF is a requirement, and owning F12 Tdf only makes your case stronger.
     
  10. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Karting

    Oct 3, 2017
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    Unlikely that they’ll produce two versions concurrently, so US bound cars would also get GPF’s or as with the Porsche Speedster, an inert substrate that simulates the GPF’s back pressure. It is likely to still have an impact on sound, however.
     
  11. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Excerpt from link below " One of the big differences between the 911 we'll receive here in the United States and what our cousins across the pond will see is the presence of a gasoline particulate filter – European Union law mandates its presence. What that means is that continental 911s will be cleaner than North American models, although our car will sound better "
    https://www.motor1.com/features/298305/2020-porsche-911-deep-dive/
     
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  12. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
    8,489
    It looks like these filters would be quite large on an 812. So my guess is maybe they are selling as many V12 into the GPF mandate territories right now, and then build non-GPF cars for non-GPF territories. The 812 Spider comes on line next year sometime and it has a modified architecture for the GPF. And then they use this for any of the few 812 SF orders that are still remaining?

    I think this would be an area where a company like Novitec might be salivating at selling you some very expensive hollow pipes along with software.
     
  13. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Karting

    Oct 3, 2017
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    I hope that’s true since my understanding is that NA cars will still have the GPF-specific exhaust configuration with a substitution of the filter element inside the GPF canister to mimic the back pressure it creates. My sense is that it will still have an impact on sound vs a pre-GPF exhaust.... the question is how much?
     
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  14. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Karting

    Oct 3, 2017
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    I have actually been wondering whether the exotic car manufacturers see this business opportunity and offer their own OE-engineered ‘track only’ exhaust system and ECU tune that deletes the GPF’s. Most will never see a track but that wouldn’t be their concern once the unit is sold with the appropriate legal disclaimers.
     
  15. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Too little profit compared to huge potential liabilities - thats IMO
     
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  16. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    664
    Austin TX
    There are GPF delete products coming onto the market now:

    http://millteksport.de/exhaust.products.cfm?variantid=1637

    not for Ferrari (not yet), but these products will require ECU re-programming (see link above), and unless Ferrari offers a factory solution I think few would be willing to risk the warranty (and potential to extend warranty for many years), only the few, so, waiting on Novitec may be a solution

    Depending on how Ferrari implements the GPF (also called OPF/PPF) it may be possible to put in dummy sensors, but, maybe not, depends.
     
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  17. somebodysb2

    somebodysb2 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2013
    11
    I'm confident that GPF can be bypassed. The only sort of restriction I will accept in my cars is a 100 cell catalyst to mitigate odour. If it means that I have to turn to aftermarket, then so be it.
     
  18. montpellier

    montpellier Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2009
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    Just to clarify, you do not pay the ULEZ charge for driving an 812 in London.
     
  19. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Karting

    Oct 9, 2017
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    I know you don’t. I was just using ULEZ as an example of tightening rules RE: polluting cars. Its not a massive stretch to say in a few years you won’t be allowed to drive a car with high emissions in a city like London. I suspect any large engined car like a V12 would be caught, especially if no GPF fitted
     
  20. cesman

    cesman Formula Junior
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    Jul 13, 2008
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    No. Pre-2015 diesels (Euro 6) and pre-2006 (Euro 4) only. Most petroleum cars exempt


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  21. aobao1993

    aobao1993 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 3, 2017
    57
    812 812 Aperta elivered in say 2020 / 2021 ? are you sure?!
     
  22. Wheels1

    Wheels1 Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2007
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    Grant
    SF90 is not out until 2020 or 2021 so I have been told.
     
  23. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2016
    379
    California
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    Jerry
    So would a 2019 812 SF be more valuable then it’s sinking in 2020? Would be an interesting fact to consider. I highly doubt Ferrari will make 2 versions of the 812 for the European market and US market for GPF compliance.


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  24. ajr550

    ajr550 Formula Junior

    Apr 6, 2014
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    Andrew Roberts
    First UK deliveries of SF90 Q1 2021.
     
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  25. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2001
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    Cavallo
    Intrinsically, yes (at least per my taste). Financially/numerically, we'll find out...
     

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