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812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. ilcapodizurigo

    ilcapodizurigo Karting

    Oct 16, 2019
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    John Meier
    Disagree - I think it is very Lambo’ish... Have to agree to @day355 . IMHO the 599GTO had the perfect balance between elegance and aggressiveness. For many, it was not aggressive enough... Just find that the elegant cars always age better...
     
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  3. leopoldo

    leopoldo Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2013
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    mark1
    Imho another car named “ GTO” after only 10 years will be so much “ without inventiveness “ and I think that if Ferrari wants they have lots of fantasy and spirit of inventing new names ( and shapes ) , so really hope that they will leave the name “ GTO “ to sleep for at least other 15 years from now.
     
  4. Ltfor3

    Ltfor3 Karting

    Oct 14, 2013
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  5. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    Dec 4, 2004
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    Agree with you completely.
     
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  6. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

    May 29, 2019
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    I think the most obvious would be to call it LM. That's a badge that has as much clot as a real GTO badge. My point was more to say that next year is the 60th anni of the GTO, so it is more likely that the F80 will pay tribute to that than the 812 VS.

    Also remember that while the 599 was named GTO ten years ago, that's not quite the same as Ferrari having the opportunity to roll out a car they can rave about as a real GTO Le Mans car. It's a bit like the Ford GT cars. The first was a tribute car, which is also what the 599 GTO is. The 2016 variant is an actual Ford GT race car derivative.

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  8. sh11783

    sh11783 Karting

    May 19, 2004
    51
    You are absolutely right! Compare that to the SF90 threads which have all gone grey. Says a lot about the passion (or lack thereof) people feel for both cars.
     
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  9. maha

    maha Formula 3

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    meanwhile enjoy this
     
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  10. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    Dhat exactly makes it Lambo'ish? It looks like nothing Lambo is doing.

    Elegant cars don't always age better. Sometimes they go down in history as bland and dull. Sometimes cars are timeless because they lack something that makes them stand out. A Ferrari halo car is about theatre, fun, passion and excitement, it should not fade into the background and be discrete. Let's wait and see what this has to offer.



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  11. F140C

    F140C Formula 3

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    Best advice yet.
     
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  13. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

    May 29, 2019
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    Not really. This always happen when a V12 halo car is coming. There's no lack of interest for the SF90, it's just a different segment at a price that excludes a lot of clients. The allocations are gone and that speaks volumes about the popularity.

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  14. leopoldo

    leopoldo Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2013
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    ..
    it would be like debasing the name GTO repeat it already again..really too soon
     
  15. mthompson2376

    mthompson2376 Karting

    Feb 2, 2017
    190
    North East England
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    Mark Thompson
    Air flowing over a curved surface creates suction, put the back of a spoon (bigger the better) under running water (lamina smooth flow) and you will see that it sucks itself into the flow, when you imagine it would push it away, note when you turn the tap up, and create turbulent air how you lose some suction...this is the Bernoulli effect, lesson over.

    This is exactly how the diffuser works, so the faster and smoother the air, the more suction effect you get, we increase the speed by forcing more air volume under the car, the air going over the roof does the same thing and creates lift the same as an airplane wing and is hard to engineer out, usually design forces as much as possible under (squeezed faster) or throwing it wide (slower) around the side of the car, this creates a pressure differential in itself, but we can’t stop all of the air going over that wing shaped roof, because of the need for the passenger cabin, to my mind the big slats could well be a way of disrupting and stalling the high pressure ‘lift’ zone and redirecting the air to a more negative pressure zone onto say the rear wing....the SF90 does something similar, looks like it could be a good solution...although aggressive and quite draggy....but the extra power would compensate, on track where most of them will never go, you want all the downforce you can get.

    I also imagine some form of boost (mild hybrid) is probably engineered given the discussed engine potential performance, the F1 current set up, the new direction, and the fact that Ferrari showcase all the new technology on the Speciale versions first, this car will be the test bed for the next generation and it’s hard to imagine how that can be done without some form of green tech, which I would personally think would be awesome...

    Only my engineering views...it will be spectacular.


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  16. leopoldo

    leopoldo Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2013
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    I am agree with you even if I think the 599 GTO is one of the most beautiful Ferrari ever built with the most iconic and melodic sound road car v12 ( if we don’t consider the hypercars such as F50 and Enzo).
     
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  17. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Rookie
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    Sep 12, 2004
    3,042
    Montreal
    The spoon trick is a demonstration of the Coanda effect and any “pull” on the spoon is from the change of momentum if the water flow that’s being redirected. The Bernoulli effect is best demonstrated by sticking your out of the window of a moving car and varying the angle of attack.

    The “scoops” on the the back side of the roof are not going to scoop or disrupt much as there’s not much energy in the diverging flow at that point. The only way these can work is if there’s some suction effect and probably not from the base area as this would imply an even greater boat-tail angle than if the roof was flat. And the flow would basically need to be sucked in through the rear hatch!

    There may be some mechanical means to draw the air in at this area (boundary layer aspiration) or could just be a styling gimmick.
     
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  18. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    It's an amazing car, not trying to take anything away from it. It's just interesting to discuss what in the horizon and why Ferrari may choose to do what they do.
     
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  19. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
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    Mar 3, 2012
    2,393
    UK
    I can understand your point - some elements of the car seem, shall we say, ‘striking’. Perhaps many people’s idea of the most pure and beautiful Ferrari is the 250 GTO. I’m wondering how much of the same concern there would have been at its launch, if it would have been a car designed to sell to a thousand or so customers?

    The 250 on which it was based was a very natural looking car (if you can imagine seeing it with 1950’s eyes) - flowing, conventionally good-looking, everything expected of a fast, contemporary Ferrari. Cue the 250 GTO and suddenly we have ditched the 1950’s grille, added a much smaller one on to the end of a very pointy, more aerodynamic nose. Then we see three flaps in the forward hood/bonnet area, a huge hump in the middle of the hood, disturbing the clear lines of the earlier car, multiple holes in the bodywork, pronounced arch flaring and a kicked-up Kamm tail. To the racers who bought the 37 or so cars, this was irrelevant because they just wanted to go fast. But the point is that this aggressive treatment came to influence, or even define, what we think as beautiful but was it considered ‘beautiful’ then? Genuine question. The 250 is beautiful in a very classic, 50’s way. The GTO is beautiful differently. It still shouts performance 60 years later and its harder-edged, more purposeful styling, which seems to be echoed in the new VS, is still relevant today - super performance cars, with bulges, holes, spoilers and attitude have come to define the breed.

    The TDF is oh-so beautiful and really hits the mark for me, much nicer than the donor car. The 812 VS looks to not be the same thing, but might it be a bit closer in spirit to the GTO that it seems to be honouring.
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  20. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    I was reading all of this quite a few pages back, and here's what strikes me.

    There's a bunch who managed to get on the list and are properly stoked about it. Then there's a lot of people who didn't and the main focus seems to be negatively criticizing a car they haven't even seen. It's no different than with the SF90 or even with the TdF. Why is it so damn important for people to cast shade and focus on what MIGHT be wrong with a car they won't most likely never drive not to mention never own? People are getting their SF90's delivered, and they are really happy with them. When the TdF was at this stage, we had a slew of people spouting off about how it was not a GTO like the 599(which for all intended purposes is not a GTO either), talking about how it could not be as good, how it would not be as pretty, how it would not be in the same league because it was not related to an FXX car etc. Well, the TdF came out and it was a massive hit, probably even more so than its predecessor. We are back to business as usual - people focusing on negatives of a car they don't know anything about, and pissing on the parade of those lucky enough to get one.
     
  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    Allocations are not gone and one can still easily order and purchase an SF90 (as of today).

    Marcel Massini
     
  22. DrUmBeAsT

    DrUmBeAsT Rookie

    Jul 13, 2016
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    Cologne
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    I guess it's a matter of "you can't have it all"... everybody wants the car to be beautiful (which is of course also very subjective) yet have incredible performance.
    With the level of performance that the 812SF already has, I guess it's necessary to make adjustments to the aero and general styling in order to push the limits even further, however, that may lead to some "unpleasant" design elements. The McLaren Senna is a good example of this. Apparently incredible performance and abilities (I haven't driven one), but to me it is one of the ugliest cars ever made.

    With the projected HP and reving to 10.000, I figure some of the adjustments that had to be made don't make the car look "better". I am however pretty sure that Ferrari pushed the limits and design/functional features of this car to the edge of what is road legal. In conclusion, the car will be so amazing that anybody who is lucky enough to get one will look past the "design flaws".
     
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  23. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    I spoke to a VIP client yesterday here in northern Europe and he was not able to find one - locally or elsewhere. So either our dealers are lying through their teeth or something else is amiss.
     
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  24. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Apr 2, 2005
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    I feel the reason for this is the fundamental approach to styling. If we think about PF for instance it is a very sculptural approach. The details are then as few as necessary and have maximum impact. Mr. Manzoni has an architectural background. Inherently architecture historically is a more line / detail based design. The FCS cars have obviously been more heavily line based design approach rather than sculptural. They need to consult with PF to get back into beauty. I suspect they have on certain cars and feel so strongly that I’d put money on it.
     
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  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    16,181
    I spoke to two dealers less than an hour ago (between 3 and 4 pm Swiss time) and both confirmed they could easily order and get a brand new SF90 (Coupé).

    Marcel Massini
     
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  26. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
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    This is 100% accurate. There has been some turnover of build slots since the Spider was launched. Not sure there are tons of slots available, but there are some at least in our country


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  27. zooyorker

    zooyorker Rookie

    Feb 28, 2010
    32
    Have to disagree with you there. It is in the soul of Ferrari to maintain and evolve classic, elegant and understated design. Even on their racing specials - and that does not imply that they cannot be sexy! There just should never be any protruding, over-exaggerated parts on the body and they have done very well in that regard, so far. The theatre, fun, passion and excitement come from the engine & drivetrain (cue Enzo's most famous quote...).

    I think the car should remain classy and somewhat "humble", whilst being well sculptured and purposeful in design.

    Just as a heads up. I don't think anyone has noticed that the 4 exhaust tips are "fake" on the mule... The slats on the protrusions at the extremities of the rear bumper look somewhat impacted by heat. I think they might be hiding the actual exhaust location...
     
  28. ilcapodizurigo

    ilcapodizurigo Karting

    Oct 16, 2019
    153
    Los Angeles
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    John Meier
    Pissing on the parade sounds a bit harsh, I find. Just expressing different opinions... I did receive an allocation and am on the list. Just find the leaked photos not that satisfying. Will buy it either way and will love it. However, I prefer (personal taste) the cars to resemble some traditional Ferraris from the past in terms of elegance instead of a futuristic alien looking Lambo look alike. You see, I’ve never met anyone who is very tasteful and classy driving a Lambo. Ferrari on the other hand still radiates classiness and gives off a gentlemen vibe. With an SF90, sure its the car of tomorrow and leads us into the future - let it be modern and futuristic. This however, represents the end of an era - the end of V12 motoring from the best brand in the world and hence it should always be remembered. But hey, maybe we just have different opinions.
     
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