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Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
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    Question #3 is of course yes unless you are of the opinion that the greatest engine builders in the world created a new engine that was already at 96% maximum output.

    With so little room from the header point out its possible that the exhaust is one big H-pipe after the collectors and includes both the catalytic and GPF functions. I think this would make a deeper hollow sound as opposed to a shrill peaky sound. By the way, that engine has at least another 100hp in it is my opinion and its up to Ferrari if they want to evolve it to there. Perhaps not these days with all the clamor about electrics. We'll see.
     
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  2. C50

    C50 Formula Junior
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    Agreed
    For sure they’ve left some power on the table, available for future upgrades
    It’s just sad we’ve evolved from the image below to 100lb filters and other “improvements”

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    Image a screen grab from YouTube
     
  3. JMJ

    JMJ Karting
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    Meant to say Aperta like, limited editions, but I felt that as a Ferrari Afficianado you might have
    understood that.
     
  4. marky1

    marky1 Formula Junior
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    Been told by my dealer mine is MY19.... as to whether it has the GPF I am still none the wiser.
     
  5. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Karting

    Jan 13, 2015
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    Even if you were trying to refer to limited editions ... the nomenclature ‘aperta’ specifically only refers to an open top or convertible limited edition and therefore by definition there would never be any such thing as an aperta that only comes in coupe form and any suggestion that such a thing could is exist is an oxymoron. Write your own joke there.
     
  6. R J

    R J Formula Junior
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    Soon brands will be suggesting that four door SUVs are coupes. Nonsense. Errrr....
     
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  7. marky1

    marky1 Formula Junior
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    Another production photo in today. Long shot but can we tell from this if it has a GPF? Reason I ask is I remember someone mentioning heat protection and I see some under the seating areas. Or, does this look like every other production photo to date?


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  8. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
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  9. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

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  10. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Well to be fair Porsche has said the USA version 992 will NOT be saddled with the dreaded GPF. If Porsche can engineer this result for the USA then Ferrari can also modify their products to operate without the GPF for that same market. There is NO technological reason why Ferrari can't produce their cars without GPF.
     
  11. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    So true...
     
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  12. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
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    I think the reason has to do with the economies of scale...

    Maybe 1500-2000 812's are made per year, whereas Porsche 911s are more than 30,000 pear year:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/462908/worldwide-vehicle-production-of-porsche-911-coupe-cabriolet/

    And Porsche has two separate factories and separate design/testing facilities so that helps too:

    https://minneapolis.porschedealer.com/where-is-porsche-made/
     
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  13. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

    Jul 19, 2006
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    This is the thing that really bugs me.
    I do understand the economies of scale thing as well; but their 812 currently is coming off the line WITHOUT GPF, the USA is a huge market, we don't require GPF and if they were truly motivated they could continue to produce that car without GPF.
    Ok, charge an extra $10K for that option....I'd pay the money.
     
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  14. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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    isn't that called aftermarket exhaust with high flow cats? :)
     
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  15. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    + void of warranty + complete ECU rewrite + possible error codes... (no thanks)
     
  16. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    I agree they have the 812 specifications already on hand for the USA spec. It is not like the F8 situation with a new version model. How much extra does it cost to just continue what they are ALREADY BUILDING NOW?
     
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  17. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
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    I think part of the problem is this:

    The V12 engines are not built for a specific chassis, they are all identically made (for the 812, with variation for Lusso if they are still making V12s for the Lusso). And then later mated to a chassis.

    If the factory were to start making different V12 assemblies (plus the entire frame --and their may be some frame changes + exhaust/emissions system) for GPF vs non-GPF that would quickly become a new logistical headache to accomplish all that on a single very low production assembly line assembly line and I guess they decided that is not worth it, as, in terms of what I believe Ferrari's thinking would be, they cars are already sold so it matters not to them.

    Plus, "one offs" like California could cause havoc so might as well play it safe, one drivetrain for entire world.
     
  18. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    Same with BMW, their M760 still has 600hp in US but only 577 in Europe.
     
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  19. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

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    GPF sapped that much HP? Wow.


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  20. TheMagician

    TheMagician Rookie
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    Oct 25, 2018
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    I spoke with ferrari dealer, here in Czech Republic about gpf in my upcoming 812 (which is due to be delivered in 2020), and they told me that my car will not have gpf. I have insisted on double checking that statement as I read the comment from Mr.Massini about gpf. I was told that they will call the factory next week and give me official statement that my car will / will not have gpf. The reason why i want it on paper is, that in case that I should get gpf car, i will simply cancel the order as I do not want it. I will rather buy used 2019 model. For me, every ferrari should look great, have great performance and signature Ferrari sound. If one of these essentials missing, I cannot justify the cost to myself. I love the tributo and pista, but they both sound terrible to me.
    I will inform you once i will have more info about gpf.
     
  21. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    It's not just the GPF, but the whole WLTP standard.
     
  22. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    I can provide some insight that supports what Mr. Massini has already stated regarding MY 2020 812 receiving GPF...

    I am based in US and placed my 812 order on April 15. In the Purchase Agreement, I wrote the following clause:

    "If car is delivered with GPF's (Gasoline Particulate Filters) as part of the exhaust system, buyer is under no obligation to take delivery of the car, and seller agrees to assist in the sale of the car without commission/fees, and furthermore guarantees full refund of buyer's deposit once vehicle has been sold."

    At first I was told they would not accept the Agreement as written. I pressed, and they presented it to the owner of the dealership. He called the regional rep, who called the factory. After a week of waiting, they accepted my order as-written, and told me my spec needed to be entered into the system posthaste. Fortunately I had my spec ready, and my order went in immediately. This print out shows what followed:

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    I was told by my dealer yesterday that my car is now Stage 90, meaning that it is on the boat and will arrive in about 7-8 weeks. I was also told that my build was the fastest they have EVER seen, as it was less than 2 months total from entry date to ship date. The reason: per our contract, they needed to get the car built before GPF's are included in 812 production.

    What Mr. Massini says is true. The GPF is coming in 2020. The circumstances of my order support that. If you don't want GPF on your 812, would encourage you to find and buy a 2019 812 right away. I have one friend in US who has already done same. He was going to order 2020 812, but upon learning it would have GPF, changed plans mid-stream and just recently found/bought 2019 812.

    So far there are only a few hard core guys like us on Fchat who know GPF is coming on 812. But once word spreads, there is a possibility supply of pre-2020 non-GPF 812's on secondary market may shrink and make it more difficult to find a spec that you find acceptable. That's my thought at least...
     
  23. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    I don't understand why Ferrari would bring cars to US with equipment that is required in Europe only.
    BMW can do it so why not them?
     
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  24. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
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    The scale of production by BMW is not the same... they sell more than 200 cars each time Ferrari sells one.
     
  25. TheMagician

    TheMagician Rookie
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    Oct 25, 2018
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    Thanks a lot for valuable insight. Already wrote to a dealer what you just wrote. I will wait and see.
    Thank you
     
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