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812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. ajr550

    ajr550 Formula Junior

    Apr 6, 2014
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    I agree but Porsche redesigned and lightened the exhaust system which more than compensated.
    I just hope this is an engineering challenge which Ferrari et al will deal with.

    Don't get me wrong sound is important but IMHO engine note peaked with Challenge Stradale.
    If sound is more important than performance buy a CS.
    I thought the fear was that performance would be compromised but that has not happened with F8 engine.As far as I'm concerned if the engine sounds OK and performance not diminished it is just progress.
     
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  2. Elisesko

    Elisesko Karting
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    I'd be giving previous engineers the stink eye and maybe some pink slips if all they had to have done previously to improve performance and reduce weight was be more emissions friendly. Think outside the box people! :)
     
  3. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2016
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    Watched that video and it’s probably the quietest F start I’ve ever heard.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  4. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Some good spin there it would seem. IF there is no real down side I wonder why GPF will not be fitted on Porsche 992 models imported for the USA market...
     
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  5. ajr550

    ajr550 Formula Junior

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    I'm sure that's right about spin but Speedster costs £211,000 and is a special edition so I guess they might have put a bit more effort into engineering around GPF.
    Clearly cheaper not to fit GPF !!
    For what it is worth the car sounded pretty good to my ears.
     
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  6. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    They spent two years developing the GPF solution and the lead engineer said he dreaded doing this project. However he said 'it turned out to be the easiest project he had worked on'.
     
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  7. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
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    Austin TX
    Is it this video?



    If so, I do not know how can you tell anything at all regarding the exhaust sound? Everywhere I find that has exhaust note also has quite a bit of background music.


    Here's comparo:

    start at 10m 15second mark:



    forget it's "against" a non-turbo Porsche, listen to the sound of GPF on a Porsche without background music to interfere...

    Not at all, Y2K was never a real issue as many computer systems do not have a sense of "year" (billing systems excluded), the press built that one up because they enjoy keeping everyone in a panic, from one scare to the next...

    And, if GPF was all that great and more, why would Porsche go to the trouble to exclude GPF from USA production?
     
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  8. ajr550

    ajr550 Formula Junior

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    That is the video.Thanks.
    People can listen and make up their own minds.
    Seemed to be 3 reasons in this thread why GPF is a "bad thing",power sapping, weight and sound.
    All I'm saying is that 1 and 2 seem capable of being engineered around which leaves us with sound.
    Leaving aside the fact that this is subjective anyway it seems to me turbos have had a bigger effect on sound than GPF will.
    I am no expert or engineer so happy to bow to those with superior knowledge but I just wonder if we are all getting worked up over very little.
     
  9. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
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    To your list, I’d add space requirement / packaging challenges, expense, and potential reliability problems. I’m surprised that you’re surprised that the GPF bothers some of us. U.S. customers are not legally required to accept a EU / China-mandated BS add-on that does everything that you don’t want to do to a high-performance engine in a car costing around half a million dollars.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  10. ajr550

    ajr550 Formula Junior

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    Not surprised at all and sympathise.
    Hope it is not on my Pista which is being built.
    Maybe clutching at straws but I'm trying to convince myself it will all be OK !!!
     
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  11. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
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    Please tell me the minute and second in that video where you get a good listen to the exhaust because everywhere I found has background music and its not even clear if the exhaust being heard is of that car at all, there are some distance shots but you can hear the exhaust as if you are in the car...anyway, let me know, because, best I can tell, that video is covering up any exhaust sound by all the background music.

    Add HEAT, lots of HEAT, for the 812 (this thread's topic) the GPF devices will displace at least 6.5L (to be effective must displace as much volume as the engine it is connected to), and because the 812 (unlike the Porsche Speedster) the engine is up front and because the GPF devices must be as close to the engine as possible to receive the most heat as possible means the GPF devices in the 812 will be under the passenger compartment...that's not where you want a lot of heat radiating upwards..

    There are a number of other problems with GPF devices, already detailed by this thread and others.

    You are correct, GPF will further reduce exhaust note of turbos more than n.a. engines because turbos use the exhaust gases as a power source so that already diminishes exhaust note for turbos, so the effect will not / should not be as pronounced for a n.a. motor, but, given the dimensions involved, those will be rather large GPF devices....

    Based on what exactly? A video you suggested that provides no ability to clearly hear the exhaust while there are numerous (not only Porsche) of other videos clearly demonstrating the muffling effect of the GPF? The fact that Porsche will not be installing GPF devices on its cars produced for the USA (that alone should give you pause for your comment...). Otherwise it would be appreciated what you are basing that observation upon, thank you
     
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  12. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

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    Here's one without background music:



    first 2 minutes or so, never did I say the car would make zero noise, but it is noticeably muffled.

    Here's an Australian video of the Speedster (Porsche does not include GPF for Australia), exhaust note is much more pronounced.

     
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  13. ajr550

    ajr550 Formula Junior

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    You don't like the idea of GPF.I don't blame you and I don't like it either.It is not helpful for the performance cars we all love.Thank you for the information you have provided.
    I further understand the frustration of GPF being "imposed" on countries because of the volume constraints that will presumably apply at Ferrari.As I have said before,I sympathise and hope GPF is not on my Pista.I love my 812,would love an 812 VS and hope if such a model is launched it will not be compromised by GPF.
    You have clearly done a lot of research and have far greater knowledge than I.
    All I am pointing out is that the first review I have seen of a car fitted with GPF by a respected UK journalist does not conclude that the car is ruined (in fact he says it is the cherry on the 991 cake (or something like that))
    Catchpole says the engine note may be a little muted compared to a GT3.Porsche say this is down to the canvas roof sitting above it not GPF who knows ?
    Is it too much to let me "wonder" if GPF may not be as devastating as we seemed to have convinced ourselves it will be ?
     
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  14. skinguy23

    skinguy23 Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2011
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    Spoke with a dealer last week about the gpf and specifically on the Pista in the states. He said he gets a call a day on it and coincidentally Ferrari North America “people” were there that day and he spoke with them. He said emphatically that no 2020 pistas (in the US) will have the gpf. He added the 2020 812’s will not have them either. Couldn’t guarantee anything after that (812 spider or VS). Hope that relieves some minds, as it did for me and my not-yet-built Pista.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  15. R J

    R J Formula Junior

    May 17, 2017
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    The drive in the Australian video is also in Sardegna on the very same press launch as the car in Catchpole’s video. Did the journalist say that his car didn’t have GPF? Would be interesting if Porsche supplied with and without GPF for the same press launch.
     
  16. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
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    Ay, wouldn't that be the ticket?

    I have also seen reviews of cars performed at race tracks, no GPF required there either...

    Time will tell...
     
  17. R J

    R J Formula Junior

    May 17, 2017
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    UK
    A quick YouTube search reveals a Dutch journalist driving the exact same car as the Australian journalist (same licence plate). Also on the same press launch in Sardegna. Dutch journalist confirms the red car is fitted with GPF. But you seemed to prefer the sound of that one ... may be @ajr550 is right (or perhaps it is just impossible to tell listening to a recording - too many variables. I for one am listening to the recordings through iPhone speakers so haven’t a clue what any of these cars sound like - including the F8 in the earlier video).

     
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  18. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Very interesting details regarding GPF. Maybe Ferrari changed their plan. This seems to contradict what Marcel Massini conveyed early last month. He didn't mention the Pista specifically; just the 812. His reply below>
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Marcel Massini F1 World ChampHonorary
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      I now have it directly from the horse's mouth that ALL 812 Superfast MY20 will be built with GPF, no exceptions, no matter for which market. for the entire world.

      Marcel Massini

     
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  19. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
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    I was not referring to the red car, but to the silverish car (not certain its proper paint name). The one with license plate B8 GT 1948 (the first part B8 may be 88 or BB). It's super clear to me as compared to the yellow one.

    The red one with plate S GO 1508 is a Porsche factory plate. Who knows how that car is outfitted. What is quite clear is this:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv7K91mhCK_/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=gvua1hyqv9wl
     
  20. C50

    C50 Formula Junior
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    The contradictory information is interesting. If I were a betting man, I’d put my money on Marcel’s intel.
    If I took my dealer at his word, I would be reporting the US-bound MY2020 pista would have no GPF
    However, I saw the correspondence upon on which he based his statement and it was not definitive.
    Ironically, I would not be able to identify a GPF if it showed up in my yet-to-be-built pista
    Time will tell and we will all learn which models have GPF installed and what, if any, real-use impact they have.
     
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  21. R J

    R J Formula Junior

    May 17, 2017
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    BB GT 1948 is the exact same car as driven by Catchpole in the video to which @ajr550 referred. Which was also expressed by Catchpole to have a GPF.

    Yellow car in the other video is a different model - 992. Not 991 Speedster.
     
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  22. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
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    OK, suffice to say the videos are difficult to sort through.

    While I am no Porsche expert by any means, I did discover:

    a. the Speedster is a 4L non-turbo limited edition (1948 vehicles)

    b. the following abbreviated but direct write up from Porsche club magazine, I will allow it to conclude my discussion on this particular car:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  23. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    Dealers fearing canceled orders/deliveries if buyers are told up front that car will in fact deliver with GPF??
     
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  24. Superfans

    Superfans Karting

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    Will people cancel orders simply because of the GPF?
     
  25. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

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    Why do you think the dealers are getting "asked daily" about it?
     
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