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812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. TheMagician

    TheMagician Rookie
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    Oct 25, 2018
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    Czech Republic
    I will. Just waiting for definitive anwer from my dealer.
     
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  2. BarryK

    BarryK Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2016
    966
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Barry K

    I agree with you. The doom-mongering may have run ahead of itself. I remember exactly the same when cats became mandatory back in the early 90's. They said "you won't even hear them coming anymore". As GPFs become more common, the technology will move forward to allow them to breathe more freely. I'd say talk of cancelled orders is premature.
     
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  3. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    839
    Austin TX
    a) GPF is in addition to Cats

    b) GPF creates a new level of back pressure the ECU detects and must be present for CEL to not occur

    c) GPF are huge as compared to Cats (size of Cats is dependent on flow rate versus engine displacement)

    d) GPF requires regular re-generation and if ECU needs help heating the GPF it will intentionally lean out the fuel mixture to cause the engine to run hotter

    e) The current GPF DELETE products (none for Ferrari, maybe Novitec will have something but, in some countries removing GPF will apparently be illegal) require ECU reprogramming (i.e. voiding warranty of a Ferrari is not advisable)

    f) Comments of exhaust note of current GPF fitted vehicles have been roundly panned by all, not a single compliment

    g) Ferrari worked for 6 months on the F8 and this is what resulted:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv7K91mhCK_/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=gvua1hyqv9wl

    and



    And, remember, Porsche worked for 2 years on their GPF and not a single compliment...and Porsche will not bring GPF to USA production...

    I think the vote is no GPF, will be great if Ferrari has that option for non-EU, non-China markets where not required.
     
    Surfah, F12JAJ, Bundy and 1 other person like this.
  4. Thecadster

    Thecadster Formula Junior
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    Apr 27, 2017
    857
    Yes. Clearly.
     
  5. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    Cavallo
    The sound of that thing... I mean, it's bad enough to be just SAD. With the whir of the turbo actually being louder than the engine, the car almost sounds like it's crying.

    Ferrari used to be in the business of producing STALLIONS... This thing is an emasculated, castrated GELDING built to please brain-dead politicians rather than automotive enthusiasts. Sorry to say, it needs to be taken behind the barn and put out of its misery...
     
  6. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2016
    406
    California
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Turbos aren’t helping either. Wonder how a V12 will souls with GPF. Luckily my 812 is 2019 and does not have it. I would much rather listen to someone else’s 812 with GPF, lol.

    The fact that it has to match the size of the displacement of the engine is absolutely scary. With the 812 engine having 6.5L of displacement, I can’t fathom the size of the GPF that would have to be engineered for the 812.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    839
    Austin TX
    Have you seen the size of the GPFs on the SF90?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    several times larger than the catalytic converters that are connected downstream.
     
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  8. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2016
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    Jerry
    Scary. Our F cars may wind up sounding like a Tesla


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  9. HyperMac954

    HyperMac954 Karting
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    Jul 2, 2012
    82
    So glad so many of you, most of whom wouldn't know if this filter were there or not by sound or performance unless you were told, are going to not want the 812 VS because of it. Will make it easier for those of that still want the car.
     
  10. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
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    Mar 3, 2012
    1,953
    UK
    Added to that the fact that the very best sounding cars are not exhaust-dominant. Ferrari V8s have started to sound less nice than Porsche’s GT3s since the 430 lost the five valve per cylinder setup of the 360 and its predecessor. Loud exhausts are just that, loud. That doesn’t necessarily mean nice (though sometimes). What you really want to hear is mechanical noises - the sound of metal bits moving together in unison. GPF won’t affect that.

    Most likely Ferraris won’t sound better with GPF but they may not sound worse, just different. And as for listening to the startup exhaust noise of an F8 and saying “see, GPF has ruined the sound...”? Purr-lease!
     
    JagShergill, Mn-0127, nads and 2 others like this.
  11. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,536
    Bournemouth, UK
    Respectfully beg to differ. I find the wail of the 458 more scintillating than that of the 355. The 355 is disappointingly muted with its stock exhaust. Nothing compares with the pure intake-engine sound of a Ferrari V12 though.
     
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  12. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
    287
    Full Name:
    Karl
    This just in from my Swiss dealer (who has proven to be knowledgeable and well informed previously); there will be a 812 convertible. Details released Sept. Not limited run but buyers need to meet criteria. I have asked what these are, and any info about GPF.
     
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  13. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2016
    406
    California
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    Jerry
    Please let us know what u find out from your dealer as to the required criteria for the 812 spider.


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  14. nads

    nads Formula Junior
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    Jun 4, 2008
    786
    London, UK
    There is already another thread for the 812 Spider with plenty of info there.
     
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  15. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    839
    Austin TX
    Imagine if the exhaust valves were permanently closed, could not open them, and they never open regardless of how fast the engine is working, somehow I think people will notice that, that's the general idea I have of how the exhaust 'sound experience' will be with GPF, time will tell, but looking at the AMG forums (MB has been doing GPF for years, longer than any other) there is a lot of heartache over there...and people buying older ones because of it and there is no solution to remove...
    for instance:
    https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-amg/713202-facelift-2019-c63-sounds-different-2.html#post7573811
     
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  16. HyperMac954

    HyperMac954 Karting
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    Jul 2, 2012
    82
    One less person in line. Works for me.
     
  17. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    It sounds like you may have confirmation that the car will actually be built... Can you share with us the criteria that qualified buyers must meet in order to be invited to purchase?
     
  18. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    839
    Austin TX
    Just a follow-up here, I did find aftermarket GPF Delete for BMW, VW, MB:

    BMW:

    http://www.millteksport.com/gpf-opf-delete-pipe-with-hi-flow-cats-ssxbm1092.html
    disclaimer:GPF/OPF Bypass software is required on the vehicles ECU in most cases.

    VW:
    http://www.millteksport.com/downpipe-with-gpf-opf-catalyst-delete-ssxvw544.html
    disclaimer:Requires Stage 2 ECU Remap

    MB:
    http://www.millteksport.com/gpf-opf-delete-pipe-ssxmz126.html
    disclaimer:Required Stage 2 ECU Remap

    presume same for any other such products (ECU Remap)
     
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  19. nycbrose

    nycbrose Karting
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    Aug 11, 2014
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    Ambrose
    Is it possible that they would allow non-EU Ferrari service centers to remove the GPF? Sounds like another great source of revenue for service departments.
     
  20. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2016
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    Jerry
    Good question, but I highly doubt it as they would have to remap the ECU as well. Not sure if it would also affect structural components that are attached in front and behind GPF parts.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    839
    Austin TX
    That would be a great, but I sincerely doubt it, they cannot even permanently disable HELE (start/stop), you have to disable each time you start the car, if it was something simple like detaching a vacuum hose, sure, but, to remove part of the exhaust, no way. More to that point is when the car (that has GPF devices) is federalized/tested it has to remain that way, at least by the manufacturer, so no manufacturer rep would even have the option of removing.

    List of such cases (in USA) per year...I think you see what I do here once you review:

    https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/clean-air-act-vehicle-and-engine-enforcement-case-resolutions
     
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  22. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
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    Olivier
    #697 dcmetro, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    According to a reliable source, there will be a 812 GTO (Called like that)

    812 pieces, only for US-Market
     
  23. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    Does that mean: Europe gets 812 SF (w/GPF) and US gets 812 GTO (w/o GPF)?
     
  24. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
    6,697
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    Olivier
    Can't tell

    I have no clue.
     
  25. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Ndugu Umbo
    #700 Solid State, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    GTO? I remember that the Pista thread was called GTO. Title changed when real name announced. If this is really going to be called GTO then I'm going to have a great summer/fall reading all the current GTO owners complain! Homologation issues and XX series and all that again. FYI, the F12TdF was also called the F12GTO for quire some time.

    However, Ferrari could really do something awesome with this car. It was promised by LdM that the final version of the F12 flagship would be a monster and the most desirable Ferrari in a long time. If this is the last of the unassisted NA V12s it very well could meet that promise. If it is made then my advice would be to use the F12 body again and just show a bit more extreme aero than the F12Tdf. It it looks like a body kit 812s then that would be very unfortunate IMO. Power on that new 6.5L could be 900hp and if US market only the exhaust could be like a 599GTO on steroids. My bottom line though is I do not believe it would be called GTO if it is made.
     
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