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812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
    2,094
    Arizona & Kentucky
    Full Name:
    Anir
    Educational video. Thanks for sharing it, and so much other useful information on FChat.
     
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  3. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 4, 2014
    6,075
    Full Name:
    Nosmo King
    I think your stuck with the GPF sound. Exhaust is post GPF unless you do a complete delete which gets into the whole ECU and warranty thing and would not personally alter the exhaust especially in a numbered LE. Times have changed in the sound department and definitely not for the better. F12/812 last truly great Ferrari V12 sound.
     
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  4. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    31,522
    South Pacific
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    I think some Porsche exhaust guys have done a proper GPF delete. But yes you are right ECU and warranty...

    However I read here on I think the novitec F8 thread that Ferrari's warranty is so strictly written now even the most basic things changed (exhaust, springs etc) will likely lead to voided warranty.

    I maintain that I'd rather have a V12 with GPF than nothing at all, but also agree with you, the times of the truly great sounding V12's is likely over. That said, I do find myself always liking older cars more and more. Current cars just get so fast but also very heavy due to ever crazier regulations.
     
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  5. deltona

    deltona Formula 3

    Aug 7, 2009
    1,376
    UK
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    Justin
    Sadly this is true. No longer can you just buy for example a Capristo valve controller, new back boxes etc to release the real sound.
     
  6. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    633
    Hockenheim, Germany
    IMO GPFs are an interim solution. Once fossil fuels start to phase out and are more and more to be replaced by synthetic fuels there is no need for additional filters as synthetic fuels can be designed to burn much cleaner.
     
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  8. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    375
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    Passione
    Agree with you guys same for me I’m losing a bit of interest for newer cars. No doubt F12/812 will be remembered as all time greats
     
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  9. Gianfranco341

    Gianfranco341 Karting

    Sep 12, 2017
    210
    Full Name:
    Gianfranco Zanoni
    I have a 812 SF with GPF and sincerely I think there is no need to remove it . Sounds is great and I can just compared to a F12 I previously owned . I didn’t test a 812 without GPF but I like mine as it is . I spoke to a Ferrari tester and he confirmed no differences at high rev . Only difference at idle . Anyway before getting it I thought to change the exhaust system due to I had a chance to hear a GTS at idle but now I have to say there is not a need . Sound is awesome . I have just to find the way to improve it at idle . May be pinning the valve
     
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  10. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
    666
    UK
    Full Name:
    Karl
    I heard from an F chat member who is nearing 1000 km in his GTS (which all have GPF fitted) that the sound materially improved with use and is now nearly as good as the 812 SF (without GPF)

    Most of the videos we have heard with GPF are likely to be cars with minimal miles on them...

    Maybe the GPF burns off some material with use, so it sounds less muffled? If this is correct it would be great of course

    my GTS arrives in a few months. I plan to change the rear boxes to Novitec plus add x pipe. I’m hoping with those mods it sounds decent
     
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  11. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    633
    Hockenheim, Germany
    Did you talk to your dealer whether those modifications will affect the warranty? Just curious because the discussion came up in the F8 Tributo thread.
     
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  13. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    These are encouraging POV's!
     
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  14. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting
    BANNED

    Oct 18, 2017
    180
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    SirPouyan
    Doesn't any modification to exhaust voids warranty?
     
  15. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    375
    Full Name:
    Passione
    You can fit an exhaust valve switch ( comes with a remote control to open/close the value by pressing a button)
    It makes the car louder at low speed
     
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  16. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 1, 2004
    1,445
    Austin TX
    In addition to how it affects exhaust sounds, GPFs are a "maintenance device" as they are actively burning matter, etc.

    https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/GFPworkingpaper2011.pdf

    so, one idea to prevent the eventual issues (well known to the diesel crowd) is to simply replace the GPF (appears Ferrari is using a 4-way system in the 812 series so replacing the GPF+catalyst as is same unit) every few years just to keep the car fresh.

    We'll see if that is really needed once there are some experiences, but at least that would be an option (i.e. factory replacement part) instead of worrying about the GPF clogging, etc.

    This will not affect any specific sound/noise regulation changes Ferrari makes to quieten the car's exhaust to meet EU regulations.
     
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  17. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    633
    Hockenheim, Germany
    The question is to which extend the warranty is voided. For the exhaust system itself sure, but what about other components? So many people modify their exhausts I can’t imagine they all do that with the knowledge to void their complete warranty.
     
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  18. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
    666
    UK
    Full Name:
    Karl
    It's a bit of a grey zone, but the basic position is: no, modifying your exhaust won't affect the warranty for the rest of the car. Ferrari will of course not repair the new exhaust if it fails, but they cannot get out of (for example) fixing the gearbox just because you have an after market exhaust. A few caveats:

    (1) Often it comes down to your F dealer/service center and your relationship with them. Some are more 'friendly' to mods than others and most will no doubt be more accommodating with larger customers when in comes to 'in warranty' repairs
    (2) the extent of the mods matter too. Changing just the rear boxes? No warranty issue. Changing the full exhaust system and doing an ECU tune? Likely to be a problem for your warranty if something fails. Anything in between is a grey zone...
    (3) local consumer laws in each country may also be different

    I'm not a lawyer but the above is my experience having looked into such matters
     
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  19. abdulla.alhajri

    abdulla.alhajri Karting

    Jul 16, 2015
    103
    I dont know what you mean by all GTS having GPF have you compared all GTS regions to have come up with that conclusion?

    Here in dubai I imanaged to check the Modis code of:

    2018 812 SF
    2020 812 SF
    812 GTS
    F8 Tributo.

    The result was that only the F8 had the letters GPF stated in its Modis code the rest of them had the letters GOL ( weirdly stands for Gulf specs according to Ferrari ).


    Again the debate of 812 GTS sounding quiet at idle that maybe the case it being new when compared to 1000 miles regular 812 SF. A proper comparison of both of them can be made when both cars have proper mileage on them.
     
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  20. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    633
    Hockenheim, Germany
    Thank you for the detailed answer, very much appreciated it. This is basically what I roughly expected it to be like although I have no own experience on that matter. Always good to hear from people who can share firsthand experiences.
     
  21. Gianfranco341

    Gianfranco341 Karting

    Sep 12, 2017
    210
    Full Name:
    Gianfranco Zanoni
    As far as I know changing any parts of the car with no oem parts will void the warranty . Before my car delivery I’ve been worried to have my new 812SF with GPF and poor sound . I found if you have your dealer modifying the exhaust in case of a problem , before asking Ferrari for a warranty issue they will fit back the original exhaust system and warranty will not have any issue . Changing just rear mufflers you don’t have any sound improvement except you can switch the valve with a remote control . I prefer then to disconnect the vacuum hose and close it , keeping the valve always open . I’m happy I like the sound like it is and I don’t have to think about any mods
     
  22. ferrarifanatic25

    ferrarifanatic25 Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2009
    798
    OC
    I hope and pray that you are right about this. Many with more knowledge on this subject than myself tend to claim that electric is not the future, mainly due to a lack of physical resources required to produce that many batteries along with the billions worth of new infrastructure that must be built to accommodate charging.

    Unfortunately, even if we can come up with a clean burning, synthetic solution that still sounds great, there’s nothing we can do about the idiot politicians passing noise regulation laws that limit maximum dB levels (which of course must be tested in their loudest setting). I guess it’s to limit “noise pollution,” whatever the hell that is?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  23. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    633
    Hockenheim, Germany

    Electric is part of the future but not exclusively. It’s not all just black and white. BEVs have their advantage the smaller the battery and at the same time the higher the utilization is.

    Very true there is likely no solution against political motivated noise regulations. Unfortunately.
    Maybe there will be some trickeries with “track-only” settings where the exhaust can be louder without affecting road homologation, similar to the track mode in the McLaren P1 where a warning to use it on public roads only pops up when selecting the mode. Just thinking…
     
  24. montpellier

    montpellier Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2009
    693
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Paul
    There is another video that explains the sound regulations, these seem to be behind sound level changes

     
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  25. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    375
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    Passione
    It would be great if you could share that video with us?
     
  26. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    375
    Full Name:
    Passione
    My apologies i can see the video now
     
  27. ferrarifanatic25

    ferrarifanatic25 Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2009
    798
    OC
    This is more ludicrous than if they made it illegal to sell cars that exceed the maximum speed limit in any given county.

    Making them test the cars in their “loudest setting” would be like outlawing any car whose top speed exceeds 75mph (or whatever the max is in a given country). Except that, limiting top speed actually would save lives and reduce accidents. Limiting sound..... (in the famous words of Joe Biden) ummm, errr, uhhhh, ahhhh.... I don’t know. Remind me again, what purpose does limiting sound serve?

    How easy would be it to implement sound limits, just like speed limits, in a given area? Residential areas could be limited 75 dB, while the county side could have no limit at all. When your in town, you press the “quiet mode” button and the valves shut. It’s that simple and manufactures have been doing this for years.
     
    red passion likes this.
  28. Shack

    Shack Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 2, 2005
    2,194
    Earth
    cant stand this "one size fits all' approach governments use. In this century of hyper personalisation they cant at least consider a solution that uses time on the road, location, time of day etc to limit dB? I guess they can when it suits them to impose fines etc
     

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