News

81GTSi COLD IDLE SPEED

Discussion in '308/328' started by gilligan308, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. gilligan308

    gilligan308 Karting

    Dec 8, 2008
    141
    S.W.Florida
    Full Name:
    Brian
    I've looked through all of my shop manuals and can not find what the cold idle rpm is supposed to be. It seems to always end up at 2200-2500 .Alot high in my book but maybe Enzo thought differently.Does any one know what it is supposed to be and how to get lower if needed? My hot idle is plus or minus 1000 rpm.Thanks for your thoughts or expertise.
     
  2. CaptOharry

    CaptOharry Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2009
    697
    Green Cove Spgs FL
    Full Name:
    Harry Welch
    My 82 gtsi does the same.Cold start is about 2800 and idle is about 1000 to 900.Are you looking to disconnect the cold idle?You can disconnect it at the expansoin tank,make a male to male jumper about an inch long jump the female ends thats all you do.No more high idle.
     
  3. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    25,702
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    That was done to pass US emissions during warm up. It can easily be deactivated.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,465
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    See page 35 in your 216/81 OM -- it shows 2800 +/- 300 RPM (which is insanely high ;) -- has to do with getting the cats hot quickly to reduce cold emissions)

    The modification that Harry suggested will always leave the cold start air valve fully closed. Another option is to place an orifice (like a 1/2" long piece of a wooden dowel with a small hole drilled in the center) in one of the air lines of the cold start air valve -- start with a very small hole and just keep enlarging until you get a more reasonable cold start RPM (~1500?).
     
    Cwheeler likes this.
  5. Dino246gt

    Dino246gt Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2007
    980
    Winnipeg, Manitoba,
    Full Name:
    Dennis Ezmerlian
    I disconnected mine, right at the expansion tank. I like it a lot better idling at around 900/1000. DO IT!!! heeheehee
     
  6. gilligan308

    gilligan308 Karting

    Dec 8, 2008
    141
    S.W.Florida
    Full Name:
    Brian
    That sounds great ,either way here in south florida a cold start is probably not needed,Thanks again! I'll try both.
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,465
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #7 Steve Magnusson, Jul 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    (Responding to a PM)

    Mark (mwr4440) -- Here is a picture showing where the orifice would be located to reduce the cold idle RPM, but your geographic location makes me wonder why you would need this information. The cold start air valve is only used on the US version 1980-1983 V8 -- is your 308i-2V a US version? If it is not a US version, just how high is your cold idle RPM?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. Weaselwee

    Weaselwee Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2005
    310
    Long Island
    Full Name:
    Jim
    My 81 wants to rev high on cold start but won't until I press the gas pedal. After I rev it up to 3K, it will hang around there until warm. Any suggestions? Something stuck? Or should I just bypass it and be done.

    Thanks,

    Jim
     
  9. Crazyhorse

    Crazyhorse Formula Junior

    Jul 23, 2007
    441
    Mooresville,Nc (Race
    Full Name:
    Bill Long
    Jim, my 82 is exactly as you describe.Either it's normal or we both have the same problem.
    Bill
     
  10. gilligan308

    gilligan308 Karting

    Dec 8, 2008
    141
    S.W.Florida
    Full Name:
    Brian
    Steve,I have what I thought was the last of the 2v when the 4v was coming at the same time. I will try to restrict the cold air bypass rather than not get a shot of fuel from the cold start injector.I took it out tonight and bypassed the temp sensor but it did take a few extra seconds to start,probably 1-2.Not really noticeable but to me.what a great sunset ride with the orange sky.It's great ride when it starts to cool off!
     
  11. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    39,138
    Bavaria, The 'Other' Germany
    Full Name:
    Mark W.R.
    #11 mwr4440, Jul 16, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2009

    Steve,

    Thanx. All is clear-er. Put in the block with the hole and reconnect. CORRECT?


    I am a US Citizen living/working in Europe at the behest of the US Govt.

    Mine car is not US but a 1981 GTSi 2V North American (Vancouver, Canada). As understand there were a few VERY SLIGHT differences between them.


    The Cold Idle is around 2800 snow or shine.
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,465
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Yes (and then test, if cold RPM too low, enlarge hole, reinstall, retest, etc., until you get the desired cold idle RPM).
     
  13. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,305
    Ohio
    Full Name:
    Dave Meredith
    #13 dave80gtsi, Jul 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Remember - this is a supplement to the standard CIS cold-start mechanism, fitted solely to US spec cars with the goal of heating up the cat converters quicker when the engine is stone cold.

    Even at the time, it was certainly a crude and heavy-handed approach, which holds no charm today.

    In fact, I'll put forth the hypothesis that this device alone contributed significantly to the 2Vi engine's reputation as an oil burner, or at the very least, contributed significantly to it. Ramping up a stone cold engine to a 2500 ~ 3000 rpm idle speed is not a good idea for engine longevity, any way you look at it.

    In my case, I studied the US vs. Euro parts manuals and ordered the Euro-spec piece (bottom item in picture below) and replaced the whole USA deal (top parts in the picture).

    Since doing this many years ago, my 308i starts right up and idles at a proper 800 ~ 1000 rpm, irrespective of the engine temperature, all year round.

    In this case. less parts are more!

    Cheers - DM
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,465
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #14 Steve Magnusson, Jul 16, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2009
    No strong argument with you Dave that removing (or disabling) the cold start air valve works OKish operationally (although to have a true "euro" system, you would have to also change the ignition ecus and warm-up regulator), but a 800~1000 RPM cold idle on a cat-equipped car seems a little lowish to me, and just don't see a strong penalty of going to 1200~1500 RPM (although I agree with you that the stock very high cold RPM probably did cause most of the US 308-2Vi engine trouble). If no cats, then I'd have less concern.
     
  15. Sandeman

    Sandeman Karting

    Dec 27, 2010
    57
    Belgium
    Steve,

    This piece of 1/2 "long of a wooden dowel with a small hole drilled in the center is it only located in the upper pipe or is it also a second wooden dowel pierced, in the small pipe located below the cold start air valve or a single wooden dowel is sufficient on the top pipe ??? (see the crosses on your motor picture).
    Thanks for your help
    Frederic
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,465
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Just one orifice is needed -- it can be placed inside either hose.
     
  17. chris_columbia

    chris_columbia Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2008
    543
    Columbia MD
    Full Name:
    Chris
    I replaced mine with an aluminum bar years ago(83 QV). No hole drilled in it. I can't imagine using wood in an engine! I frequently go for drives in sub-freezing temperatures in winter time with not the slightest issue at startup.
     

Share This Page