"However, the statement above about the 19 hijackers being brave going into battle is pure horse****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Bravery is somewhat of an opinion. If someone is crazy enough to die for what they believe in, than many would say it's bravery. It's just those 19 were not on the side of the US, so their actions are defined as cowardly. What about bomber pilots, would you say those guys are cowards too? Since they never even see the people they bomb, and the stay miles away from them they must be cowards. I'm just sick of this trendy "brave hereos" comment that keeps getting thrown around. Most of those ~3,000 people were victims. No different than the victims killed by drunk drivers or other murderers. We don't call a person a hero for crossing a sidewalk and getting killed, we don't call the people that make videos that are shown on shows like "Real TV" hereos. But if a person is associated with 9/11, then label them a hereo, never question a thing about it and give their family a million bucks. Just sickening.
randall, Since you've hijacked this thread, many have responded to your demands. You see, you're the only person I'm aware of that calls each and every person who died that day a "hero" - and complains about it. Others seem to know the difference between "hero" and "victim." Those of us with common sense and decency who pay the one thing that is free - attention do not have this problem. This woman was termed a "hero" - with just cause... As you said, That being the case, getting on the phone - sounding the bugle, if you will - and calling in a hijacking put her in danger, wouldn't you imagine? Does that make her a victim? Or a victim who did what she could - without knowledge of what was transpiring on other aircraft - let alone what was going to happen - all the while, putting herself in mortal danger if a hijacker discovered what she was doing? If you put yourself in harm's way, when you're already there, that is courage under fire. "Courage under fire" is not a buzzword - it is a commitment, come hell or high water. She made that commitment, her personal safety be damned - therefore - when someone, anyone calls her efforts heroic, don't undermine her effort or her legacy - as it is a clarion call for those who have common sense, decency and respect for fallen heroes. Is she a hero? Yes, absolutely. What would happen if this was a group of Americans that took over (an) aircraft? They'd be treated not with the same amount of spite as the Oklahoma City Bomber - More. They would not be looked upon as brave - they'd be looked upon as fanatics, be it left or right wing. You're right about one thing, though - your salutation describes your attitude and your sense of time and place - decorum, if you will. "Just sickening"
Unfortunately, it sounds like the flight attendant was completely and utterly oblivious to what was happening until it was too late. Because she believed the pilots has been overcome / killed, but the plane was still flying normally, confusion resulted. When confused, this often leads to people's inability to act decisively or at all. What should have happened was that the cockpit door was bashed down and the terrorists (who were armed with nothing more than petty letter openers) disarmed and secured. the saying "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." (Edmund Burke) pretty much sums up exactly what happened, even though it wasn't the flight attendants' fault (as they are not trained to react to such an occurance). This is why sky marshals are so important: in such a situation as the September 11 hijackings, they would be trained to be able to take control of and resolve a situation, instead of sitting helplessly in a daze until the time of their death.
You know your right, but i am currently working on my masters in Political Science and writing my thesis on Islam and Politics. Amazingly i am very suprised to find out what i have learned. There are so many sects to the Islamic religion that there is no way we can pin point one group. There is a on going war between Muslims let alone between the US and Muslim occupied countries. CNN mis reports so many issues, including who are the Salaf's and Sufi' tribes and its gotten out of hand. I am so not a liberal and i still want justice, but you cant legitmately achieve justice when you are dealing with the same melting pot as the US. People assume all muslims are muslims but in reality theres about 4 schools of Jurisprudence that divide people, then theres over 100 sects that have been created as a way of reform. Ex. Protestant, baptist in the Christian sense. Bottom line "those people" cant even get along with themselves, they are more passionate about their beliefs then we can understand.
Randall, you are the second person that is going on my ignore list. I can only conclude that you hate your life, or your job or whatever. But to make hateful diatribe over remembering this tape is over the top. My suggestion, which I'm sure that you'll ignore, is that you need to take a good hard look into the mirror. Good Luck, DrTax
I'll never forget that day when after school i drove to a hill a few miles from my house and just say a huge cloud of smoke and ash where i used to see the NYC skyline. Whenever i go back to that hill at night or whatever, it doesnt look the same, it looks empty. Its not the amazing view it once was. i cant listen to it either.
Randall, the only thing sickening here is YOU, and your hatred of America. Your condescending attempt to demean folks who died trying to save others is beyond the pale. Move to Cuba, will you please?
No...he can stay in th US. We need people like him to remind us how stupid "intellectuals" can be. On the other hand, I'd like him to go to a Middle East hell-hole...I mean country, and express the opinion that he can see the other side's point. His next thought would be.."hey..who cut off my tongue and why are these people piling rocks on me?" I wonder what his opinion would be if he was the one sitting in his office as a plane crashed into his building, spraying burning jet fuel all over him. I guess his last thought would be...Well...I guess I asked for it. I see their point. I have a feeling he's just messing with us anyway. He needs the attention. Ask momma for hug Randall. She loves you ...she really does.
I hate the concept of the ignore feature, or at least I *used* to hate it. I hated it because I didn't understand it's true nature. At first I thought it would keep me from hearing other points of view, valid or not. Now I realize it will simply keep me from hearing Randall's point of view. G'bye, Randy! Nice knowing ya!
How pathetic is it that we live in a country where when someone does the RIGHT thing, they're heroic? It wasn't anything special, and by labeling people a hero for doing the right thing it degrades the people in the past that actually did hreoic things. So you all can rant and rave about the spectacular acts of a flight attendant that pressed some numbers on a phone. The people that rushed a cockpit did something above and beyond, an act that took a lot of courage. The people that called for help, did the bare minimum which is good, but doesn't make them hereos. And how about the families of 9/11 victims? Now many are fighting about the amount of cash they'll recieve. That's the true spirit of america.
Randall, Your digging yourself a deeper hole,as well as upsetting a few members, including myself, in regards to the hijackers being heroes. That's just plain stupid. I think it's appropriate that you don't reply to this thread any more - for your own benefit.
The fact that they were just civillians; and not in uniform makes their acts also heroic and special. You do not have to charge a machine gun position to be a hero. There are acts were beyond what civillians would encounter under normal conditions in the civilized Western World. The families that are fighting for money have been shattered forever. They did not ask for this. The people who financed this operation should pay the ultimate price. That is what you should mention in your post. They are financing future operations at this very moment. As far as those terrorist thugs making the ultimate sacrifice ? Who knows what those cowards knew or did'nt knew while they commited their attrocities. Some may have been along just for a ride to sunny Cuba ? They may have been promised to be heros upon returning home.
The scary thing is that the terrorists thought they were being brave doing what they were doing. They (note: THEY, NOT i) truly beleived in their cause and THEY thought that by furthering it, they were being brave. Randall, i think you are a real idiot. Just because someone does the right thing DOES make them brave sometimes. I think we can both agree that going into a burning building to rescue people is the right thing to do. By your logic, the firemen who went into burning buildings to save lives are only doing the right thing, so we shouldnt call them heros or describe them as being brave. Putting you life on the line, and in some cases sacrificing it, to save the lives of others is a brave thing to do and makes you a hero no matter what the circumstances are.
Klint, I don't think I called them hereos. I said what they did needed a lot of courage/faith/bravery. In some places they would be called hereos. What I did say is a stewardess that makes a phone call is NOT A HERO. Just a woman making a call. If I see a car accident and call the police, does that mean I'm a hero? People don't want to call them victims because it's not a flattering term. If you expect a pathetically little amount out of people, then any action they make will seem heroic to you. If you have higher standards and expect people to do the right thing, then something as simple as a phonecall doesn't make a person a hero. Just because a job requires some amount of bravery, doesn't mean every person that does that job should be labled a hero. As far as those families getting tons of money and crying about it; I feel they should have been given a little help for 6 months, but nothing more. The people that died that day are no more valuable than any other person that gets killed by a criminal. There is no reason federal dunds should be used to dump billions into their relatives.
No, I don't think we can all agree that going into a burning building is the right thing to do. Sometimes it is, sometimes the risk is worth it. You can call every cop on the street a hero and the construction worker that holds a stop sign a hero by your standards. Which is fine if it makes you sleep well at night. But it devalues real hereos and makes you look like a jackass in the process.
You're the one who looks like a jackass. When did i say that anyone who does the right thing is a hero? Thats funny, i dont think i did. I said SOMETIMES it makes them a hero, as in the case of firefighters who went into the towers to save people, knowing that the buildings could collapse at any moment. I also never refered to the victims as heros, as many of them probably didnt even know what happened. Honestly, i understand how you can believe the things you say (some of it even makes sense), but i really cant believe that you dont think that a firefighter who goes into a burning building, not knowing whether he will make it out alive, to save lives is not a hero. If i, a normal citizen, went into a burning building to save the life of someone would i be a hero then since i wasnt 'just doing my job'? If not, then can you give us an example of what you think a hero is? If you think that people who merely do the right thing are not heros just because they did the right thing, then in your world heros are nonexistent.
"the bravest people that made the biggest sacrifices that day were the 19 hijackers. ..." randall I have heard that before. Like many falsehoods, there is perhaps an iota of logic behind it. Yes, generally speaking, it takes courage to die for what you believe in. However, they chose the time, cause and manner of their deaths, an option not given their victims. Terrorist die instantly and most likely painlessly at a time of their choosing. Their victims suffer pain and horror we can only imagine. Sorry, can't give these ...people...an ounce of credit. No more than I would any other criminal who commits murder/ suicide.
You think any american that puts their life on the line is a hero. In your own words you say all police, all firemen, construction workers with their signs and hundreds of millions of others around the world are hereos. So what does that make a medal of honor bearer? Is he a superhero? Or maybe a super-duper hero? You don't have to give them credit. They went into something knowing the price beforehand. Many americans don't want to say what they did required courage, because courage is a compliment and you shouldn't compliment criminals. Just like many americans can't bring themselves to say Hitler was a great leader, because he was a bad person. An action is heroic when it is done knowing that there is an extremely large chance of death. I don't label every firefighter as a hero, they are trained to minimize their risk of death. Their career isn't even in the top ten for highest death rates. Some of them perform heroic acts, but that doesn't mean they all are hereos.
[ Their career isn't even in the top ten for highest death rates. Some of them perform heroic acts, but that doesn't mean they all are hereos.[/QUOTE] I'm gonna crack up if your house ever burns down, and you're trapped in your bedroom with your bunny slippers on. A guy, running into a burning building is a hero PERIOD dude. It's like cops. Someone starts shooting...everyone runs away or hides...and the cops SPEED to the scene to fight it out. It's not a big deal; you're entitled to your opinion. I just don't get your thought process.
JHC Randall, Why is making this rediculous point so important to you? Are you trying to win the troll of the year award or just completely clueless? DL
Yeah, look how good hes doing today with his leadership qualities. Dont get me wrong, he was good at appealing to peoples interests, but obviously he was not a good at being a dictator because he didnt last as one. Fidel castro is good at being a dictator. When i said that people who put their lives at risk to save the lives of others i should have used the term "immanent danger". Sure, construction workers holding signs face a very minimal risk of losing their lives since they work around moving vehicles. By holding their signs they are also making sure that motorists are safely directed, possibly preventing them from getting into an accident. You must be really stupid to assume that to risk ones life means to put it in any sort of danger whatsoever. You are assuming that my definition of a "hero" extends to me whenever i piss in a urinal. Hell, i could slip and hit my head on the porclain and get killed! It's pretty much accepted that the term "risking ones life" is used to describe situations where one's life is in considerable danger. This is obviously what i meant when i used the term.
