91 TR acceleration and tachometer problems | FerrariChat

91 TR acceleration and tachometer problems

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by spaceship, Nov 13, 2017.

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  1. spaceship

    spaceship Karting

    Feb 25, 2016
    50
    Full Name:
    S. Chan
    Continue on the restoration of my 91 TR, more problems was found. Hope some experts will shed some light on it. Thank you in advance! The car runs with the original pre-cats and cats, but the o2 sensors and exhaust temperature sensors was unplugged by the previous owner for some unknown reasons.

    When the engine is running around 2500 - 3000rpm, the car jerks, feels like the fuel is being cut off and back on within half a second for a few times. It is more serious with heavy throttle. When applying light throttle, just slight hesitation on acceleration. When the engine revs above 3000rpm, it's back to normal.

    When it reaches 4000rpm another problem occurs, the tachometer stops there, even though the car keeps accelerating. A local workshop tried to hook up a spare tachometer for testing, the spare gauge performed the same.

    Any advice on how can I diagnostic these problems. Thank you.
     
  2. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    It was unplugged because they are notoriously faulty and he probably had the slowdown warning coming up all the time i would think.

    For the second part of your issues i am not an expert there but i know some guys will get it right for u;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,904
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    I'd pull the cats and precats and inspect them for melted catalyst honeycomb. Really easy to see and identify. Your exhaust could be 75% clogged!
     
  4. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,934
    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    the temperature sensors to unplug is notbad, but the O2 sensors to disconenct is bad. so the engine is only running in "emergency "modus
    the O2 sensors are connected again already? you can meassure if the engine will run too lean?
    tachometer? is this the rpm gauge?
    if so the needle stay constantly or is still moving a little?
     
  5. spaceship

    spaceship Karting

    Feb 25, 2016
    50
    Full Name:
    S. Chan
    Thank you for the reply.

    Yes, RPM gauge, it stays at 4000rpm most the time, but have seen it dropped back to 3000rpm couple of times.
     
  6. ME308

    ME308 Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,542
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Michael
    "it`s ignition, baby" ... ;)
    if not done already, check all plug extenders ... if never done, re-new them all, same for plug wires !


    most probably a fault in the small potentiometer on the back side of the rpm gauge itself
     
  7. spaceship

    spaceship Karting

    Feb 25, 2016
    50
    Full Name:
    S. Chan
    With help of a mechanic friend, tried a few things on the Testarossa. Reconnected the O2 sensors, engine vibrated a lot more, the exhaust smelled very rich, 2500-3000rpm still jerked and above 3000rpm no jerk but no power, same as the O2 sensors unplugged. Checked the O2 sensor voltage, the one of the senors might not work well, ordered a replacement. However, I think that is a separated problem not related to the jerking. Also checked and adjusted the air fuel mixture, checked cables, replaced the spark plugs and fuel filters, the engine feels a bit more lively, but the jerking and lack of power problem still exist.
     
  8. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,128
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    Checked the cables .... are you aware these are special cables ?

    Not copper-wired ... ?
     
  9. spaceship

    spaceship Karting

    Feb 25, 2016
    50
    Full Name:
    S. Chan
    Checked the cables, connections are good and all plugs are firing.
    No, I'm not aware these the special cables. So their condition can't be determine just by spark plug firing? Need changing regardless?
     
  10. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,128
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    Hope somebody can get an expert reply here: the core of the oem cables is charcoal ...

    Have to be measured in a special way ...

    Can anybody help us here ?

    I bought full set new for my 512TR; were perfect of course but very expensive ...
     
  11. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
    1,829
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Christian
    There is a small electrical thingy behind the tach that is notorious to go bad. It was $200 to fix with all new instrument bulbs from North Holly speedometer. There is also a sensor on the bell housing IIRC. I wouldnt trust your mechanics tach unless it did the exact same thing as your stock unit.

    My car lost some power and found it was the connector between the main engine wiring harness and the ECU over the right rear tire. The plastic tension O ring cracked so the connectors wouldnt make proper contact. $30 fix.

    But if your car is running rough at idle with all the goodies connected, I would get a pro involved to set all the base parameters like fuel air mixture etc. Now that Im thinking about it......You might have an issue with the RPM sensor at the bell housing. It might explain both issues. Maybe pull, inspect and clean it (fast easy and no cost).

    And yes, the TR spark wires are kinda special and not cheap.
     
  12. spaceship

    spaceship Karting

    Feb 25, 2016
    50
    Full Name:
    S. Chan
    Thank you all for your advice. We are focusing on the acceleration problem, haven't touch the RPM gauge yet. Will try to inspect the fuel system first before working on ignition after the basic checking of both.. So far, found that the problem was with bank 7-12. It only happens under load, cursing at 2500RPM then heavy throttle will trigger the symptom, gentle with the accelerator the jerking will not present. If running with all 12 cylinders, it will not happen in 1st gear, only in 2nd gear and up. It seems to get worse when the engine heated up. After 3000ish RPM the jerking goes away, but lack of power. We have replaced the fuel filters (one was bad), replaced all the injectors, installed new O2 sensors. The engine feels most strong now. However, the jerking still there. We try to measure the fuel pressure of the system. the primary pressure is 5.2bar, the pressure before entering the injector is 3.2bar at 1000rpm, Fluctuating randomly between 2.2bar to 4.0bar at 3000rpm. Is that normal? Since we don't have the additional D section in our manual... Are those two fuel distributors the same, could we just swap them for testing?

    Thank you!
     
  13. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    NO

    YES

    I think there is a problem with the fuel regulator or the fuelpump. before swaping the distributor just swap the regulator.
    the primary pressure both sides are equal? then no need to swap the regulators
     
  14. spaceship

    spaceship Karting

    Feb 25, 2016
    50
    Full Name:
    S. Chan
    Thanks Turbo-joe, what's the pressure before entering injector should be at 3000RPM? Should it remain constant?
     
  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    southwest germany and thailand
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    the pressure at the injectors is independent from the RPM and always equal. only the flow gets more, but this also depends by the vacuum how mich the distributors will open
     
  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    forgot to mention:
    if in one of the lines from the distributor to the injectors the pressure is differnet to the other then this injector is not right working. the pressure is controlled by the injectors.
     

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