A/C - R12 Replacement, FR12?

Its R134a, R124, and Butane.

I experimented a while back with straight propane. The results were amazing. R12 boils at -27F. Propane and Butane boil at around -45F. Much more efficient. If ya'll can get past visions of the Hindenburg.

 

The only thing I don't like about blends is that they leak at different rates. That makes it impossible to recharge correctly without a complete evacuation and all new but back in. I'm staying with R-12, which is easier because I have a jug.

 

I did use the Freeze12 as a replacement for the R-12 and I found the Freeze12 works very well.

 

This is you in an accident.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Did you evacuate the system completely or top it off with the Freeze12?

I seem to fing conflicting info on if the R12 system actually needs to be evacuated or if one can add R134 to the appropriate pressures.

 

You need to evacuate it. The oil is not compatible. R134 uses ester oil. That's why they tell you to replace the o-rings. The new ester oils will eat away the old black o-rings. The new green ones are impervious.

Also, you should change your drier for the same reason.

Hal

 

Since I didn't have enough R-12 in the system anyway, I went ahead and evacuate the system, normally you can just top it off if it's just a little bit like a pound or less. And when I evacuated the system I evacuated it for a minimum of 45 min. with a vacuum pump, the longer the better.

 

LOL, propane/butane, you guys are crazy!!! Why not liquid nitrogen?

I've been reading about that R-406a fanfare as well, what got my attention was that it runs about 10% cooler than R12 and lasts longer than 134a. The only catch is that traditional leak detection cannot be performed, a molecule sniffer setup to detect R-406a must be used. I do not care about the political fallout over this GOREbal warming and how it regulates products, but the stuff is tree hugger approved and if it beats 134a then I'm sold. Anyone else do the 134a to 406a changeover?

 

Funny you ask cause that's what I use on my Lancia Scorpion
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Years ago when I was doing my apprenticeship I saw a video where the charge a domestic refrigerator with propane and deliberately shorted the compressor internally to see what would happen.It just made a big bang and forced the door open.The I saw the same experiment on a car A/C and it blew the car up!Hey come to think of it I wonder if the guys from Mythbusters were around then!!

 

Ahahahahahahahahaha

 

That aint the kind of help I need with my 328 air cond......I was thinking better compressor or something.......not a car bomb!!!!

 

I'm not an expert but got an A in AC HVAC at my local college. Bite the bullet and use R12 its available in CA still so I cant imaginre you cant get it anywhere. It is more efficient than 134 and needs no modification of your system and a charge on a sealed system lasted me 3 years+. Wht mess with something if it aint broke. Plus R12 cools better and Im sure most old Ferrari AC's are not that good anyway so why try to make it worse???

Rob

 

Not in Australia mate, a bottle of R12 is rarer than rocking horse shiit here

 

I was talking about R134 conversion. If they say you don't need to, you don't need to (for FR12).

You should flush the whole thing though. Also, replacing the drier and the oil in the system will increase your efficiency.

H

 

Don't do it...R134 does not cool nearly as well as R12...especially in an A/C system that is already marginal at best...plus, I believe you need to change a lot more that just oil and seals...you need a new dyer as well as new hoses as from what I've been told the R12 hose material is not compatible with R134... which are not cheap...and after you spend all that money to use R134 you will hate it as you will be sweating like a stuck pig...

 

I agree. Been there done that, in a Ferrari. The R134 was significantly warmer, with everything perfect. I have used R403B in another car and been very very happy with it.

And as far as safety goes in a crash? For crying out loud, you are driving around with a sloshing tank full of highly explosive gasoline and vapors already.

jay

 

We still use and recommend R12 for the older systems where it was OEM.

 

AGREED! R134 requires larger capacity condensors and evaporators because it is a much less efficient refrigerant than R12.

 

Not if you are going from R-12 to FREEZE-12

 

R134 is just as good as R12, but it requires higher pressures.

You need to change oil/seals/dryer. The hoses work just fine and if you replace them they are in fact cheap. You take your old hoses to an AC shop and a matched set can be made up for a small cost.

That being said, if you've got a working R12 system, no point in switching it over if it's sealed and works.

 

They may be the case in theory...but, Ferrari A/C system are marginal when working as designed and the antiquated compressors are not going to put out any needed higher pressure...and, if you have custom A/C hoses made you will be hit for a few points at a concours and on resale if the potential buyer notices...

 

Sorry but in my experience R-134A does no work as well as R-12. I have thermometers in my AC vents (I know, kind of wierd) and when I come to a red light the temp in my '02 Explorer climbs at least 10 dergees. My old R-12 Explorer did not and my R-12 308 does not. The water temp. may climb in the Ferrari but the AC air temp doesn't climb like the R-134a system. Now running down the highway at speed the 3 R-134A cars I have do just fine.