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A few F1 updates

Discussion in 'F1' started by tifosi12, Jul 2, 2004.

  1. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I got lucky and a friend brought me my all time favourite F1 newspaper "Motorsport Aktuell" from Europe. This mag has been around for many decades and the best and most trusted inside stories. Here a few updates I got from it:

    - The Williams and Toyota brake ducts were not too big in Montreal. But mounted too close to the wheel. The closer you mount them, the cleaner the air is to the wheel and the better the brakes perform, hence a limit. In Toyota's case they got new parts and didn't check for that. In Williams' case it was either stupidity or attempted fraud. At any rate, Frank did blame his new technical director for it.

    - Massa crashed in Montreal because a rear suspension part broke. Several factors contributed including his rougher driving style than Fisico's over the kerbs. The part will be reinforced going forward.

    - Sato's engine explosion were caused by him letting the rpms drop during shifting. Now he is shifting more like Button and the explosions should stop.

    - MS did pass RB under yellow briefly (when he came flying while RB was going slowly). The cameras and the timing devices registered this, but the stewards let it slip. It would have earned him a drive through or stop and go penalty.

    Thought you might like some food for discussions.
    :)
     
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  3. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
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    Interesting, wondering how the pilot could have any effect on that since it's the engine mgt system which controls the rpms during shifting (both up and down) ? Any clarifications ?
    My guess was over-reving the engine either before upshifts or during down****s ?
     
  4. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, at least in my PC game the driver controls the RPMs during up and downshifts and according to the newspaper report it seems to be the same on the BAR Honda. They said, that particularly on the down shifts Sato let the RPMs fall too low. They discovered that and told him to use Button's approach and now the engines seem to hold.
     
  5. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
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    I had the same question as JC...

    --Dan
     
  6. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I think the way the motor management system works is, that it automatically controls the revs for the downshifts (blips the engine) once you have selected to downshift (pulled on the left paddle). However as long as you don't pull the shift lever you control the engine revs with the gas pedal, as you should. So Sato probably paused for a moment before selecting to downshift and in that brief moment the revs plummeted more than in Button's case.

    That's also how it works in my game (which is fairly accurate).
     
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  8. asianbond

    asianbond Formula 3
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    Nothing beats hearing the straight facts to get the real truth......we heard so many times of guys labelling Sato as a maniac driver over-revving and blowing up the engine, when in fact it was just a learning curve issue.

    Nice to hear proof that MS does gets favorable treatment, if it was anyone else, especially JPM, they would had been penalize with a drive thru penalty. JPM is crying wolf for a reason.....
     
  9. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
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    He's not the only one.
     
  10. pipecrash

    pipecrash Karting

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  11. pipecrash

    pipecrash Karting

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    More info on MS usgp "passing under yellow"

    http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4714

    ..... the computer data was quickly updated, showing Rubens Barrichello in the lead by a mere 0.013 seconds.

    An FIA spokesman agrees the timing page 'did briefly display Michael ahead of Rubens. But then [it] automatically corrected itself to the accurate timing.'

    He said the timekeepers 'contacted Race Control' to confirm.

    If Schu had put his Ferrari's nose ahead of team-mate Barrichello at the re-start, he would have been handed a race-affecting drive- through penalty.


    Source GMM / CAPSIS International
     
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  13. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    My newspaper is German and they are big Schumi fans (although they're normally just neutral as they should be) and would rather err on his side. So it is unusual that even they state MS passed Rubens. They mention, that it was clearly visible from the aerial shot. Now I don't remember seeing that (but then again I might have been sleeping) and it could be that lovely Speed TV cut to a commercial while the Europeans got the entire feed of the race and did indeed see him being ahead of Rubens.

    They also comment on the time keeping gear, which rarely fails and of course it "corrected itself" because MS hit the brakes and fell back behind Rubens again.

    It really isn't a big deal and a penalty would have been unfair. But leaving the car three seconds too late at the start wasn't a big deal either and it cost JPM the race. Rules are rules.
     
  14. Old Guy

    Old Guy Formula Junior
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    So if I understand several of you, a moderately obscure German language magazine is a reliable source and the FIA isn't.

    Journalists always tell the truth and FIA officials always lie -- at least when it involves Ferrari -- as part of a conspiracy.

    OK. Got it.
     
  15. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Motorsport Aktuell is probably one of the best and most reliable racing newspapers there is. Has been around for decades (at least since the seventies). I wouldn't take everything as verbatim, but fairly close. If you read other sources of information and there is one hot new rumour that eventually turns out to be true, sometimes you see it referenced back to Motorsport Aktuell. They do know what they write.

    BTW: They didn't accuse the FIA of lying, they simply stated (in their very neutral form), that they found it rather "strange", that nobody penalized MS for what he did. No polemic, no nonsense.

    And the FIA is just another referee as in any sport. Sometimes they can get it wrong in the heat of the moment. And with all the turmoil that went on in that race it doesn't surprise and I'm not blaming them for it. Also I don't blame them for taking their sweet time with the DQ on JPM as it does take time to figure out such a minute infraction (3 seconds I read) of the rules.

    And no, there is no conspiracy.
     
  16. ralessi

    ralessi Formula 3

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    So sophisticated timing equipment is trumped by these people's views of an aerial photograph? I understand your like for the magazine - nothing wrong with that but this seems sort of suspicious. I know at least from my watching live the USGP that the timing systems are not in synch - they would differ some depending on when/where someone was passed. I felt that the FIA article explained the system rather well and would personally take that over this article, but to each his own.
     
  17. jmillard308

    jmillard308 F1 Veteran
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    Well, that worked a treat at Magny Cours! :)
     
  18. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Yup, was thinking the same.
     
  19. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    I knew it! I knew it! I feel vindicated for my comments about Sato. If it was not for his Honda sponsorship he would not be in F1. Honda use him for marketing and to sell more t-shirts in Japan. The explosions keep happenning and magny Cours was also his fault. Too bad talented drivers like Anthony Davidson and Timo Glock don't get an F1 seat because worthless drivers like Sato managed to get some biased sponsorship. Sato is wating a good car and is wasting the chance for BAR onda to come in 2nd in the constructors championship.

    But little do I care... On to Silverstone to anothe Ferrari victory!
     
  20. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Tifosi12,

    I believe a driver is allowed to correct his position on the track if he passed under yellow. If the correction occurs immediately no penalty will apply.

    Thus MS did indeed pass RB, but immediately hit the brakes and followed RB over the line.

    Not 100% sure but I believe this is the case.

    Pete
     
  21. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    This is correct
     

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