A new level of fake?

Different turn signals and a different windshield. I'd guess that these are two different cars.

 

This is not unheard of for 'real' cars too. There are at least 2 moderately high profile restorers in the UK who are well known for their ability to 'create patina' on otherwise restored cars. Ditto for a painter in southern California. Only a short hop to do the same for a recreation.....

 

It did fool me, but I fail to see the point of putting on fake patina.

 

These look like two different cars to my eyes: Different grill, lights, windshield, wheels, tire size (width), etc. The hood scoop looks similar but one has Superleggera badges. If there were an accident, I'd presume a new nose or body would be made so I don't think calling it a recreation is appropriate. Also, when new, these cars were NEVER in the condition most are shown as now. Imperfections built into a restoration (duller, period-correct paint, etc.) are okay by the current attention to historical detail.

IMO, this a doesn't seem to be "fake" and should be in the general vintage forum.

 

Absolutely the same fake Barchetta. The nose was rebuilt to improve the look around 2000, and the paint work patinated around 2005.

You may call it a rebody, re-creation, continuation, facsimile - I call it a fake. As it definitely is a "non-period rebody" it definitely belongs to this subforum.

 

Please explain the difference

 

What is wrong with cars looking old real or not ?

I am grateful that there are owners that are willing to pay for the extra cost of fake patina rather then take the easy repay option. Rebody or not, how much better does s/n 0264 look now then before.

I have posted this before but lovers of recreated patina, will appreciate the following photograph of the front wing of a 1938 Alfa 8c 2900 Spyder showing the various paint layers acquired over the past 75 years.

You have:

The metal wing built by Carrozzeria Touring
A black undercoat
A maroon second undercoat
The original Alfa red paint (matt)
A nasty yellow self levelling primer from an earlier poor restoration
A horrible orange red respray
The final modern shiny shiny red that currently adorns the car

The restorer has carefully removed all of the later layers to expose as much of the original paint as possible. He will then spray in the gaps and match the original paint and patina. Certainly not the cheapest option and it will never be a "100 point platinum car" but when the car is finished it will look so much better.

Kim
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I read Rob Lays definition.

So if it has the same chassis and running gear it is a rebody

 

A fake is a lie, if they are not lying about this car origins then it is not a fake but a replica or tribute car; and yes fake patina has been going on for a while.

 

But they are: looks like a barchetta but isn't.

Rest of the vocabulary was all invented just in an attempt to tip-toe around that word. Fake!

 

Fake. An interesting and much-misused word. Fake is all about deception and in this context Fake can be applied as a description to any restored Ferrari original or not. If the owner of this cars intention is to deceive then it is indeed a fake but I do not know the owner or his intention so I cannot form an opinion.

 

I try to keep things simple and easy to understand: fake is opposite of real.

If the presentation changes what the car is, then two identical cars may end up being different. That's where it gets too complicated.

 

An interesting debate as I believe intention is relevant to the definition

My wife restores early Italian paintings and sometimes this involves a substantial amount of restoration whereby significant missing parts of the painting are repainted. The great skill is in making the finished product appear un restored to anyone other then an expert. As you say the picture will always be "what it is" however anyone seeking to claim it as an original is guilty of deception and in their hands the picture is in effect a fake.

In this context created patina is taken to be "a new level of fake" and deception. The word fake may well be convenient but it is also aggressive and accusing.

Kim

 

Interesting viewpoint !

If the artist is dead or gone,
how do you determine "intent ?"

I have a small bit of training in art,
and I restored GP motorcycles for 25 years.......

In the old days, most folks wanted
their bikes restored to "original."
Correct paint, colors, plating, spec's, etc.
Just like from the manufacturer.

That worked well on machines
for which no "history" could be found.

Later, clients were a little more interested in the
"historics" of the bike, if they could be found.

A few individuals wanted "their" bike "restored"
to look like it just came off the track,
under a famous rider and a fantastic win.

Paint and decals to match period photographs.

Once, we had to mount the bodywork on a "mule,"
run the bike at the track for many laps
to give the paint the "just raced" look.

It's only original once,
but you can always have patina......

Is there such a phrase as "original patina ?"

 

Coming to a paintshop near you……….Directive 2004/42/CE of the European Parliament and Council on the limitation of emissions of volatile organic compounds due to the use of organic solvents in certain paints and varnishes and vehicle refinishing products and amending Directive 1999/13/EC (the “Paints” Directive).

The question is…….What do you want to see on the lawns of the concours circuit. Fake patina or a fake re-spray ?

I think we should have a poll !

 

Apparently 0264 was one of three that were rebodied by Fantuzzi in a "package deal" in which they shared the cost of the body buck. See: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-redline-restorations/96773-ferrari-340-mm-barchetta-1953-a.html

 

We are straying from the original point: This barchetta only saw life in the seventies, and the chassis of another car (yes, still a Ferrari) was used to build it. It's a fake barchetta AND a non-period rebody.
Patina is created by time and use: How can it be accurately reproduced?
Fake patina also hides history, more fake.

That's not to say that I don't like this car, but be clear and open about its' provenance and history.

Best,

Jack.

 

What would we prefer to see on a car original or not, Fake Patina or a Fake respray ?

It is all a matter of personal preference but I much prefer to see something that looks it's age as opposed to a gleaming show room example and I think this is well illustrated by Bigodino's pictures

K