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A special 512

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by jselevan, Feb 13, 2004.

  1. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,870
    #1 jselevan, Feb 13, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  3. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
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    Franklin E. Parker
    They are such beautiful cars. Too bad they were such dogs and Ferrari never could get them to perform well enough to beat the Porsches of the day. Those were sad days for Ferrari in both F1 and sports car racing.
     
  4. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,870
    I watched these beasts compete at Daytona in 1971-1974. The sound emanating from the 12 cylinders was most disconcerting. They were easily distinguished from the forceful roar of the GT40s, and the shrill of the 917s.

    This car was built from spare parts owned by Herman Mueller. Mueller and Pedro Rodriquez campaigned a number of Ferrari racers during the 60s and 70s. Rodriquez was killed in 1971. Mueller, who has recently died, purchased all of the spare parts available for the 512, engines, chassis, transmissions, and all available components from Enzo during the 1970s. Later, Mueller sold all of his parts and cars to a gentleman in the states (Tennessee, I believe). The new owner of all the spares sent the boxes to a group in Detroit with orders to build a complete 512. This car was built from all of the spares and rolling chassis originally purchased by Mueller.

    There were originally twenty-five 512s produced by the factory to satisfy the homologation issue. Management photographed the 25 sitting together outside the factory, and quickly dismantled all but 12, using the 13 or so for spare racing parts.

    Jim S.
     
  5. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    May 15, 2003
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  6. joopjoldersma

    joopjoldersma Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2003
    364
    Holland
    Full Name:
    Joop Joldersma
    [Mueller and Pedro Rodriquez campaigned a number of Ferrari racers during the 60s and 70s. ]

    Of course this car was never campained in the 60's. The 512S were build for the 1970 season and the M version came late 1970.
    Did Herbert Mueller ever drive with Rodriguez? In 1970 he drove mostly with Parkes (in a 512S) and in 1971 with Herzog (in a 512M).
    Rodriguez I have as driving an 512S in 1006 in a couple of races in 1970.
    I know my information is not complete, so please correct/update me.

    Joop
     
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  8. Old Guy

    Old Guy Formula Junior
    Honorary

    Dec 1, 2003
    438
    No longer here
    Jim,

    I'm curious about your story, for a couple of reasons. Pedro Rodriguez was indeed killed in 512 M chassis 1008, owned by Herbert Muller, at in Interserie race. After Muller's death his son offered all his spare parts for sale. (I have the inventory somewhere, having considered buying the lot.) Included in the lot were lots of wheels, suspension pieces, body parts, two engines, a couple of greaboxes, but no chassis. There were, however, two chassis plates, one of them from 1008.

    The parts were eventually purchased by a gentleman in Chicago, who commissioned John Hadjuk in the Chicago area to reconstruct two 512s from the part, a 512 M 1008 and a long-tail 512 S (I forget the chassis number). That project was covered in detail in the FCA's "Prancing Horse" magazine a number of years ago.

    The 512 M reconstruction "1008" from that project has recently been sold, and is in the Seattle area. If you check the Northwest area there's a thread on the John Goodman garage tour; 1008 is the #14 car. For a variety of reasons I'm quite certain this is the M which John Hadjuk reconstructed from the Muller parts. The other reconstruction is still in 512 longtail configuration, painted yellow.

    That leaves me very curious as to the car you picture. Any further information? (Incidentally, only a very few 512 chassis were used for parts, and all seem to subsequently have acquired some sort of specific history.)

    Edited to say: Jim, one other thing occurs to me. There was a "512 M" in Tennessee. This car was a complete replica, and contained none of the Muller parts. It claimed chassis number 1034 (a destroyed car) at one time, but was an admitted replica with no chassis number. If your friend bought this car he may wish to check exactly what he got.
     
  9. GaryReed

    GaryReed F1 Rookie

    Feb 9, 2002
    3,095
    Seattle
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    Gary
    Old Guy,

    Here's a picture of #14 that you refered to.

    I took this last week at the tour of Goodman's shop. I got a chance to sit in it. What a bear getting in and out.
     
  10. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,870
    The pieces of the story are beginning to come together. I spoke with a others this morning at Crystal Cove, and based on the market price of this particular car it sounds more as a replica. The owner suggested that the parts were from the Muller collection.

    I should have said the Muller passed away "more recently". Yes, many years ago, and it was Herbert (my error).

    I will try to get more specific information, but I suspect that the collective wisdom of this thread is most accurate. This car was in Tennessee.

    Thanks for all of the information. The car is beautiful, original or not. The current owner is fully aware of its "replica" status, but believes (I suspect) that the Muller parts were used.

    Jim S.
     
  11. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    May 15, 2003
    4,130
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    Boudewijn Berkhoff
    #9 Boudewijn, Feb 14, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  13. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,870
    Information keeps coming our way. The car photographed (#71) was constructed by John Hadjuk in Chicago utilizing parts from the Muller estate. This is the understanding of the new owner, who received a telephone call from the seller this evening. More information will be forthcoming upon a telephone call to Chicago.

    Thanks for your patience.

    Jim S.
     
  14. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2001
    30,614
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    Joe Mansion
    you have got to be ****ting me ! This car is amazing !! OMG !! Plesase post more pics !!!!
     
  15. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,870
  16. Gilles

    Gilles Karting

    Aug 10, 2003
    236
    South of France
  17. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2001
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    Jim ,

    thanks a lot !!! This is one of my top 10 Ferraris. I love it so much !! The sound is unbelieveable..and that cockpit...WOW !!

    Thanks a lot !

    Andrew
     
  18. Roland E Linder

    Roland E Linder Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,791
    COLORADO
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    Roland E Linder
    Thanks for posting pics of such a car. I remember racing with them all over Europe in the 70. What a sound when past by them. (I was in Group 5 911).
    I got a bunch of shots of them (slides) in Spa when they were still driving the car on the road to go back the the garage to service them, also from Le Mans.
    Other day but what a souvenir. thanks to bring them back.
    Roland
    F40LM
     
  19. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

    Nov 12, 2003
    5,194
    Austria
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    Michael Platzer
    I´ve seen the car pictured above at the cavallino classic 2004.

    the car was presented by bill noon / Symbolic motors.

    i was told, the car is a replica with a daytona engine and does not have a regular ferrari chassis number.
     
  20. Old Guy

    Old Guy Formula Junior
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    Dec 1, 2003
    438
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    348 Spider is correct. The car uses a Daytona engine and a Hewland gearbox. The chassis, body, etc., were built in the U.S. by John Hadjuk (as mentioned above). It was once briefly claimed to be "1034", a car destroyed in 1970, but has no chassis number. It is almost an exact replica, but some of the interior tubing was offset slightly, to make room for a larger driver (a toy for a "big boy").

    It will still be a fun driving experience for its owner.
     
  21. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2001
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    It looks perfect and 350 hp for 700 kgs isnt too shaby..
     
  22. DHarm

    DHarm Rookie

    Mar 16, 2004
    18
    What a joy to find you guys.I am an auto engineer in Detroit and I am trying to pull together information on the 512S&M. I am trying to make a collection of information like Gunnar Porsche has and the 917 guys have for their car.
    See links below to 917 stuff.
    http://www.gunnarracing.com/
    http://www.porsche917.com.ar/index.htm
    In particular, I am making a CAD drawing of the frame to overlay with the body outline like the 917 page. Has anyone ever produced such a drawing? I like "comparing and contrasting" as the old high school teachers said back in the day. I've seen the barchetta.cc pages. Does anyone have a frame drawing or detailed pictures?
    Thanks for any help. I am hoping to come up with something nice to post someplace.
    Dave H.
     
  23. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,333
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    Now this 512M "swisstronic" replica is for sale.
    Broker: Michael Sheehan
    Saw it myself in 2004, looks nice even for a replica. Same fun as an original but for only 15% of a real one.
     
  24. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    34,891
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    HUBBSTER
    512Ms rock :) My fave also apart from my 512M Slutmbile of course LOL

    So is this 512M the real deal or Sheehan's replica ?

    Is the replica worth $295,000 ?
     
  25. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,333
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    Tom Wiggers
    a Hajduk replica.
     
  26. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2001
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    Joe Mansion

    Any more info ? Cant find it on the site of M Sheehan ? And what do you mean by swisstronic ?
     
  27. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    Jul 11, 2004
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  28. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2001
    30,614
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion

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