News

A Tale of #0846 at LeMans

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Miltonian, May 26, 2004.

  1. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,959
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    Most of us love to read stories of the adventures of the P4's. This article appeared in "Classic Cars" of July 2000, and relates Chris Amon's story of the retirement of 0846 at LeMans 1967.

    During Chris Amon's first year with Ferrari, in 1967, he was sharing an open P4 4.2 litre V12 with Nino Vacarella at LeMans. It was the same car which he and Lorenzo Bandini had shared to win at Daytona. 'I elected to use the open car at LeMans because it was more comfortable - fortunately, as it turned out, because it was easier to get out of.'

    Amon, the Ferrari team leader, was keen to do well with Ferrari, having won at LeMans the previous year driving a Ford with Bruce McLaren. Bandini had been killed in the Monaco Grand Prix a few weeks before and the team were anxious to take the game to Ford. 'Do it for Lorenzo'. That was 23 year old Amon's ambition.

    'We were about seven hours into the race, in second or third', Amon recalls. 'Just before midnight, after I had passed the pits going into Dunlop corner. I felt a twitch at the rear. It was a puncture. By the time I was on the Mulsanne Straight the tyre was flat and I could hear all sorts of noises - the suspension upright and the rim were starting to run on the road. I had no choice but to change the wheel.'

    He pulled off to one side of the long straight and opened the engine cover to get at the spare. 'There was a sort of jack, a torch (flashlight), and a wheel hammer to knock the centerlock spinner off. The first thing I discovered was that the batteries in the torch were flat: but there were plenty of cars coming past with their headlights blazing so I had occasional illumination at 200mph.

    'I got the jack out and started to crank it up. It worked in a fashion and the next step was to get the wheel hammer, wait for a blaze of light and take a shot at the centerlock wheelnut. I swung at it and the head flew off the hammer, disappearing into the night (and the trackside ditch), never to be seen again.

    'I was going to have to drive it back to the pits somehow. I drove away relatively slowly down the straight - but I was probably still doing 100mph and the tyre was flapping wildly. There were sparks showering back from the suspension upright and I assume a fuel line was knocked off one of the pannier-type fuel tanks just in front of the rear wheels. The whole car just went BOOOF!

    'I had been on the right hand side of the track anyway and I aimed for the ditch. It was getting bloody warm by that stage, so I jumped out thinking I had almost stopped, but I was probably still doing 50mph and ended up somersaulting along in the ditch while the car rolled another 100 meters down the road before it came to a stop not far from a marshal's post.

    'The marshals could see the flames from the car - which was now well alight - and came running. The four marshals and three gendarmes soon had the fire out and went in search of the driver. They were looking around in the ditch, wondering where I was, and I remember walking up the ditch, feeling a bit battered, and tapping a gendarme on the shoulder, saying "Here I Am". Poor guy. He nearly died of fright.'
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Definitely does sound like a completely destroyed car to me ...

    Pete
     
  4. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
    44,169
    SFPD
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
    DNF: Puncture, fire.
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    A FEW things remained...
     
  6. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Aug 3, 2002
    40,647
    California
    Full Name:
    Carbon McCoy
    50mph...! Race gear or not, that's no small feat, even if he wasn't on concrete...

    Very cool story, thanks for posting it, Jeff... Too bad no one ever recovered the head of the hammer that broke off and disappeared into the night...
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. Teenferrarifan

    Teenferrarifan F1 Rookie

    Feb 21, 2003
    3,017
    Media, PA
    Full Name:
    Erik
    Anyone have more pics of the wreck? where is the driver today? Awesome story.
    Erik
     
  9. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    15,974
    Savannah
    Full Name:
    I NEED A JOB
    great story, love the pics, car looks very fixable to me!!!!
     
  10. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    73,162
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    It did get fixed.. ;)
     
  11. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2004
    3,691
    France
    Full Name:
    Cyril TESTE
    Jim,

    I'm the man who took the digital picture that you show in this thread and I'm FURIOUS that you use it for trying to convince everybody that you have the real 0846.
    Yes, the pix gives the feeling that the car is not so much destroyed but I have the whole video and believe me, the car is clearly HEAVILY BURNT.
    NOTHING RECOVERABLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Aardy
    This still is from the BBC telacast of the 67 LeMans race produced by French TV.
    You may have digitally copied a frame from that telacast but you are not the man who took the original image.
    I too have a copy of the BBC telacast and as with any original document it speaks for itself esp. as this particular frame depicts how 0846 looked after the fire was put out.
    Your statement: "Yes, the pix gives the feeling that the car is not so much destroyed but I have the whole video and believe me, the car is clearly HEAVILY BURNT.
    NOTHING RECOVERABLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
    is opinion.
    It is not fact.
    My opinon, based on hard facts, is that you are quite wrong.
    Why any of this should make you furious is quite beyond me.
     
  14. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    Aardy,
    Why are you furious? How does the car being burnt mean that the whole thing is a loss, including the chasis?
     
  15. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,959
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    Geez.... I posted the article because I thought there might be people out there who hadn't seen it, and it gives some first-hand insight (from Amon) into the interesting story of an interesting Ferrari. If I thought for an instant that it would develop into more aggravation for Jim, I would have kept it to myself. Everyone knows that the car caught fire at LeMans in 1967, and unless you have absolute concrete evidence that the car was totally destroyed in the fire and there was nothing left of it to salvage, then you really can't make an informed judgment on it. I certainly can't, and I wouldn't base my opinion on a grainy old image.
     
  16. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jul 30, 2001
    22,079
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Jim E

    Wow AArdy, you must have a time machine. Digital photography was NOT available when that picture was taken, so you must've pirated it from somewhere else. You're furious why? Do you think someone pirated your pirating?
     
  17. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    50,814
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I really appreciated the posting, I hadn't heard the story before. I just bought a Amon autograph a couple days ago.

    James, I would love to hear the entire history of the car, maybe you've already posted it before.
     
  18. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2004
    3,691
    France
    Full Name:
    Cyril TESTE
    I'm not furious about pirating (??) the picture.
    I'm furious to see that this pic is used by Jim for trying to convince everybody that he has the parts we can see on the Le Mans picture.

    AGAIN : In the past threads, WHERE ARE THE PICS OF THE CLAIMED ORIGINAL PARTS of 0846 ??
    I would want to see pics for EACH PART claimed to be original BEFORE Jim's project.
    I don't say that Jim is dishonest. I'm sure he's the most enthusiastic Ferrari Fan.
    But how can we say that a TOTAL RECONSTRUCTION around several original (???) tubes is the real 0846 ??
    Totally unreasonable.
     
  19. p4traverler

    p4traverler Rookie

    May 24, 2004
    9
    BRADWELL ON SEA
    Full Name:
    GRAEME KERSLEY
    REMAINED ?, I HAVE BEEN A RACE TECH/TEAM MANAGER FOR OVER 25 YEARS, AND IF THIS CAR WAS NOT READY TO RACE WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THIS FIRE I WOULD SACK THE LOT OF THEM .
     
  20. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jul 30, 2001
    22,079
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Jim E
    Take a pill Aardy. Jim's comment was "A few things remained". He did NOT say "A few things remained and I own each and every one of them, therefore my car is 0846."

    He made a statement that the car was not simply a pile of ash. A LOT of ash for sure, but not total.
     
  21. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Having stayed up through the night rebuilding motors with ventilated blocks in track side motel rooms in order to make the next day's race I take your point.
     
  22. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    5,999
    Central NJ
    Aardy,

    These discussions finally started getting civil and interesting again. Every time someone comes to the discussion being "furious", flame wars begin.

    I am interested in learning from these threads and find the flame wars destructive and annoying. I am personally asking you to refrain from attacks (though I welcome constructive criticisms) so that flame jihad does not begin again.

    Sincerely,

    Art S.
     
  23. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    73,162
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    I understand that Mr. Ferrari kept a kind of museum at the factory of failed parts that had cost the team victory.

    I'll bet THAT is where the hammer head, or at least the handle is....... as I use the tool bag in my car extensively, I readily believe THAT part of the story!! LOL!

    My new '77 308GTB has an untouched tool bag, I'll post the two kits side by side, you'll be amazed!

    Napolis' tool for the spinners is a MUCH improved design! :)
     
  24. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    I am pleased to annouce that I have recently acquired that hammer head from an elderly gentleman who prowls through France with his metal detector. Even though it has no serial number, the tale of its provenance maintains a trace back to original 0846.
    I have restored the hammer with a reproduction handle and since it WAS a required and original component of 0846 with a provenance as proof thereof, I do hereby submit that MY HAMMER is the one and only P4 Ferrari serial number 0846 that raced at LeMans in 1967.

    Undoubtedly this will cause an uproar in the Ferrari world but as I say, the truth hurts.
     
  25. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    73,162
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    I'll have to see a notorized site diagram with the above mentioned vehicle orientation along with the proposed trajectory depicted to the point of recovery.

    THEN after Ferrari Factory authorization has been received, you can put it back in the tool kit. Better leave it out to rust a little first, you know, patina.

    I sprayed all mine orange so I don't leave 'em in the roadside gravel.
    Except for the Champion plug gap gauge, which thankfully also works on NGK.

    Check the cells in the torch, would ya??!?
     
  26. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Exactly, I have seen far worse fire related incidents and easy fixed. There is even a poster on this site whose 308 has been burnt twice and he (last I heard) is still trying to fix it again.

    Also there was a 906 Porsche that burnt to the ground in a recent classic meeting that is 10000 times worse than this fire (which was immediately put out by the marshals [read Amon's story]), and that Porsche is being restored.

    BTW: Chris Amon is alive and well living on a farm in his home country New Zealand. I watched him demonstrate a Maserati 250F many years ago and he can still drive ...

    Pete
     
  27. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Aardy,
    Have you searched the old Ferrari Chat site. The link is at the bottom of this thread. There you will see the chassis bare ...
    I think personally you and P4Racer should pull your head in and let the authentication process take its course. Ferrari Spa and others are not going to authenticate Jim's car unless they are satisfied. Whether you or I are satisfied does not matter a fnck ... as you and I do not count, as we are not the experts in this situation.
    So shut up and await the official verdict like the rest of us.
    Pete
     
  28. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
    44,169
    SFPD
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
    Redefines looking a gift horse in the mouth, aye?

    Man.

    Don't you whiners know that 'Napolis is more than willing to seek out the truth, no matter the outcome?

    "Truth is never offensive but it's not necessarly what everyone believes or that which is written. For many years many believed that MK-IV J6 won LeMans in 1967 driven by Gurney/Foyt and that J5 Driven by Donohue/McLaren finished fourth. The people who believed this included many "experts", authors and even The Henery Ford Museum. They were wrong. J5 is the Foyt/Gurney car and mine which is J6 is the Donohue/Mclaren car. Proving this involved a lot of work including finding bills of lading, taking cars apart, and not being afraid of finding the truth no matter what it was.
    The latest editions have corected this mistake. If you call Bob Casey at the Henry Ford museam he will confirm this, even though they still haven't corrected their signs. My car is J6 always has been and their car is J5,even though it is missing it's chassis plate, original engine, original steering wheel, radiator and other parts. It does however still have the crushed section of tub which John Collins hammered down to give Dan Gurney a little more head room as mine still has the dent that Bruce Mclaren made when he threw down his helmut and ran off to retrieve the tail section that had blown off on the Mulseanne after he hit 223MPH."

    See? 'Napolis could have let "everybody" think he had the first-place finisher in the most incredible road race. But his integrity spoke otherwise. I'm 100% positive 'Napolis sleeps with a clear conscience.

    Kwitcherbellyakin'
     

Share This Page