ACCEPTABLE ? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

ACCEPTABLE ?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by MANDALAY, Aug 25, 2019.

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  1. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
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    Luke should quit his job and become the Chief Apologist at Ferrari. Must give him an " A" for effort. Not buying what you are selling. One excuse after another. Since Ferrari works on the highest profit margins of any car manufacturer and charges more for options like Apple Car play, Homelink , CF packages that cost more than a new Mercedes, the company cannot afford to offer a high quality of fit and finish. Please, you must finally rest your case.
     
  2. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    Mar 18, 2014
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    Agree wholeheartedly. As a consumer, I share that view entirely.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
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  3. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    I would reject the car.

    Let the dealer cope with it until it's fine.
     
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  4. R J

    R J Formula Junior

    May 17, 2017
    583
    UK
    Lucky. Mine has dodgy paint. Very dodgy.
     
  5. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    Did you read my posts? I’m not excusing Ferrari poor quality paint but let’s get some facts straight. Paint defects, which do occur, (in fact on all brands) are not excusable and as per the title of this thread yes, you absolutely should get them sorted - I reckoned Ferrari has a large provision for paint warranty. Why do you think I supposed that?

    But there is a difference between poor quality paint and paint defects. If you don’t like the quality of either the standard or the Zanasi Ferrari paint don’t buy the car - you can easily see what quality they manufacture to, it’s on pretty much all cars. But no point complaining over a bit of orange peel. It is what it is. The Italians, Germans, British, all do poor quality paint these days. I was involved in the car business in an era when beautiful paint, literally beautiful, was very possible. Now everything has changed with water-based paint and no one is able to make stunning paint any longer, not really. Some better than others but you decide before you buy. Ferrari paint is poor, no getting around it. But it won’t change until you see them invest in a new plant and spend a lot of money so what is even the point in debating it?

    But is also too frequent for them to produce faulty paint. I have been affected too, though in my case it was traced back to the logistics company. And my dealer was very honest about it, for a mark in the paint that needed a light to reveal. I couldn't even see it at first glance. I would rather it didn’t happen but it did. So much uninformed comment is made here. If you really want to make an informed decision, get informed. That’s all.
     
  6. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    One other thing, 90% of what Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche and McLaren do is outstanding otherwise we wouldn't be here. So unless 90% of what we talk about is positive then it is misleading - especially given we are actually on a Ferrari board. Don’t we have a right to consider cars we spend a lot of money on in a good light on a forum that bears that brand’s name? Check out Maclife or Rennlist, they rightly have a very pro-brand theme. In fact it is Fchat that has the most brand detractors on it. Why is that I wonder?

    Of course I could just say things I don’t believe if that makes you feel better. But then I wouldn’t feel so good so I think I’ll just stick to saying what I really think. You don’t have to agree with me, that’s fine. Please don’t call me an apologist though, my true loyalties in life lie in areas other than a car brand and if it was a car brand it would not be Ferrari. Just call me a regular customer, which I wouldn’t be if half the stuff written on here was my experience.
     
  7. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    Let me point out , im not suggesting orange peel at all. Im talking paint defects , paint runs , pin holes in the paint. Actually I saw a car like yours a SF812 and special colour as yours. The crease line on the bonnet was polished so hard that it was down to the paint. If im correct the clear on yours is coloured. This particular car was so bad it took days of working on it just to make it acceptable.
     
  8. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
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    Hopefully my F8 will arrive with precise fit and finish that will not diminish the excitement of taking delivery of what I anticipate will be a special car.
     
  9. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    Agreed. Every country has different laws but Im going to find out if there is consumer protection with regards to this. I acknowledge its an issue for the dealer but its Ferrari's issue. But hell ild be so disappointed if it was a Pista. Any other car call me anal , I wouldn't take it. When I pay 600 k for a car needs to be perfect in my eye. Hell paying 20 k plus for a particular paint colour it has to be exceptional. I have paid for it.
     
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  10. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    SPOT ON.
     
  11. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    If I get a chance to see any other PISTA's ill report on it. Could be very well an issue due to the material difference and using the same paint on dissimilar materials. Generally on production cars the bumpers being urethane the paint has more plasticizer to allow flex, hence if you look at the bumpers many look like a different shade. Different formula paint different line.
     
  12. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    I hope you and everyone gets a flawless car.
     
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  13. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    The film company ran a micrometer on my 488 GTB and thickness was very consistent. Going over my car with lights we only found a single ONE mm chip in the lower spoiler , no issue. I was very happy given all the fears of horrid stories of issues and was finally relaxed.

    To me as described orange peel some wont like it , to me its not a flaw. Uneven paint thickness, running lines , pits etc are.

    Maybe the rushing to get cars out has even lowered their levels to let cars pass ?

    Maybe painting dissimilar materials with the same paint is causing the issue ?

    Was I lucky ? Maybe so . But maybe because I had a paint option RCM .
     
  14. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    So I did a little searching and found this

    AUGUST 1ST 2018

    Always looking for ways to improve its production process, Ferrari has a new paint that reduces energy consumption at its plant and improves the resistance of the painted surfaces.

    The paint has been developed in collaboration with supplier PPG and offers several benefits.

    It incorporates a specially formulated clear coat that makes it possible for a car to be baked at 212 degrees F (100 degrees C) instead of 302 degrees F (150 degrees C), thereby cutting energy costs and enhancing the sustainability of the process.

    There's also another benefit of the lower cure temperature: it makes it possible to bake carbon fiber and composite components together with the painted bodyshell, resulting in color uniformity between the various body components.

    The special clear coat also features a new type of hardener that Ferrari says enhances the chemical and mechanical resistance of the coating, thus allowing it to better protect the paint finish. The hardener is also said to enhance hydrophobicity, which results in less water permeability.

    There's one additional benefit. Ferrari says the new paint makes it possible to combine metallic basecoats with gloss or matte pigmented clear coats, resulting in a greater number of possible finishes—61, to be precise.


    100 DEGREES is really low , given water boils at 100 degrees. This could very be an issue with the Portofino red with up to a year delay. Looks like they are have issues.

    Give me Glasurit VOC any day.

    Maybe Zanasi still use the 150 degree oven temps
     
  15. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    Mar 18, 2014
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    One question:

    Laws are very different from country to country, but over here in the EU, generally speaking, cars come fresh off the factory with three types of warranties:

    - Mechanical warranty (minimum 2 years mandatory)
    - Anti corrosion warranty
    - Paint warranty

    Could it be argued by a customer at a dealer that orange peel/ running lines/ uneven thickness constitutes a defect and therefore activate the warranty? Has anyone done that?

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
  16. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula 3

    Jun 20, 2017
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    A new Ferrari should be a no excuses car. I'm pretty sure that's what buyers expect and certainly (rightfully) believe that is what they are buying. They don't want to hear excuses, reasonable or otherwise, for any cosmetic flaws.
     
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  17. JasonN

    JasonN Formula Junior

    Sep 24, 2017
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    My 812 with the flat Nero DS1250 was littered with swirls and sanding marks when delivered. I wouldn't say the paint was bad, it was just not properly finished. The dealer wanted me to let them "wax" it which means they put on a glaze to hide the marks. I didn't let them touch it as I planned to have it corrected, wrapped and ceramic coated. I stopped in to see it yesterday after correction and the difference was amazing. All of the defects were polished out and they were getting ready for wrapping. I am told the 812's are hand painted as well as the tri-color paints and therefore have more flaws that need corrected. I was more upset that my rear diffuser was tilted and the Ferrari service manager told me "that's just the way they are" which was total BS. Will it keep me from going back for another one eventually? Nope. It is what is it is.
     
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  18. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 6, 2003
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    I saw a black Pista earlier this year that was pretty rough straight off the truck, similar condition as you described probably needed 20-30 hours of paint correction. Mildly disappointing when you drop a half mil on a car.

    To me it's part of "how the sausage is made," I'm sure they had it gleaming by the time the owner picked it up.
     
  19. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
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    I expect the factory to perfect the finish before it leaves the factory and not subjecting the buyer, who has eagerly been waiting up to 2 years for delivery, to witness all the flaws and then wait for the dealer to correct them. I realize that is expecting a great deal for your 300K-500K purchase, but I do.
     
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  20. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
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    I personally will not sacrifice the quality of the paint and finish to bake the car at 100 degrees less in order to save the company on energy costs.
     
  21. padebus

    padebus Karting

    Mar 22, 2014
    68
    Jason, I did the same. Ferrari delivered my Lusso with a very poor paint job, full of swirls and marks. I had it corrected by a specialist and since then everything is just fine. It’s just not acceptable to have a Ferrari delivered with such a poor paint job. By the way, all paint jobs on my prior Ferrari’s were the same as bad .


    Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk
     
  22. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    It's only always about cutting costs ….
     
  23. CT Audi Fan

    CT Audi Fan Formula Junior

    Oct 23, 2011
    619
    The short answer is “yes” it is acceptable because the market accepts it. If I waited a year for a $3 or $400k car (or more), I doubt I would refuse it to wait another year to get the same result. So I’d go spend $5k for a full paint correction and ceramic and be happy.

    As someone pointed out, though, there is a big difference between buffer trails or sanding marks and true defects like corrosion or bubbling or such. That I would not accept. Or at least that’s what I tell myself ... truth is I’d be so stoked to pick her up I wouldn’t even notice what color it was.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  24. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3
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    Oct 17, 2015
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    I surmise that is because we often have higher standards and expectations inherent in our backgrounds that allow us to play these expensive toys to begin with.

    My FF bumper also had a very bad paint that required corrections, which finally now looks the way it should. 458 does have no problem, to be fair.

    It is us who let Ferrari got away with it. The habit has been formed from both sides. Takes time to change.

    Now that it's a public company, pressure from customer returning defective products will be much more easier to feel.

    Honestly what is going on with always taking August off in Italy and then rushing the products out of gates later?
     
  25. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula 3

    Jun 20, 2017
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    Exactly. If we have a large group of qualified "detailers" that can do a terrific job bringing these off the truck delivered Ferraris up to snuff than I would expect Ferrari could find the same in Italy.
    At the very least Ferrari should include that paint correction, prep, whatever you want to call it in the cost of a 300 to 500K car prior to presenting it to the client.

    I realize that the bar has been systematically lowered on just about everything we buy but for me it is time to push back. This poor paint situation on a Ferrari is ridiculous.
     
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