News

Adjusting shifter cables on a 348 - questions

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ILuv4Res, Aug 11, 2004.

  1. ILuv4Res

    ILuv4Res F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 8, 2002
    6,509
    Full Name:
    Fred
    Hello,

    I have some questions regarding the adjustment of shifter cables on a 348, to help cure difficult shifting.

    1) do you adjust the cables while the car is in neutral or in a gear?
    2) It seems the translator side (rear of car) has a piece that slides in and out of a shaft depending upon which gear is selected. If I tighten in one direction too much, it makes it difficult for other gears.
    3) Which way and/or which side cable affects which gear(s)?
    4) As I am making adjustments, I put the little bolts back in the turnbuckle thing & test by trying to put the car in each gear while the engine is off. Does starting the engine make the gear shifting go easier?

    I just can't seem to get it just right.........Any help is appreciated!! Thanks!
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    20,015
    socal
    1- in gear
    2-%$#&*????
    3-both cables per gear
    4-no harder. After you setup without engine spinning you can put the car in gear without clutch. Can't do that with car on.
     
  4. ILuv4Res

    ILuv4Res F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 8, 2002
    6,509
    Full Name:
    Fred
    #1 - which gear should it be in for adjustment?
    #2 - I guess I didn't explain clearly. The translator piece (where the cables connect at the rear of the car), moves both from side to side as well as forward and back on a shaft. If I tighten too much one way, it won't go as far the other way.
    #3 - So there's no right/left cable associated with a particular gear? They adjust to work together for each gear, correct?
    #4 - Yeh, that's what I was doing.

    After about 4 hours of adjustment, I don't think I am any better/worse than when I started. :(
     
  5. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    15,401
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom

    4 hours is not enough time spent!!:) these shifters are a tricky one. The only real way to do it is to adjust,drive,adjust alittle more,drive etc. That way you can "feel" the differences. It will take time but the end result is worth it.
     
  6. RAYMAN

    RAYMAN Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Mar 10, 2004
    315
    Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Raymond Santilli
    That's very discouraging, mine's bad too.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. ILuv4Res

    ILuv4Res F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 8, 2002
    6,509
    Full Name:
    Fred
    At this point, I only "feel" the frustration of spending 4 hours with no real results. Are you serious or kidding about it taking longer?????? Will it ever get to be real smooth for all gears, or will it always have some sort of 'character' to it???? Perhaps my expectations are too high????
     
  9. davey_jones

    davey_jones Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2002
    781
    wherever it's sunny
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Could you guys explain difficult shifting???
    How do you know the cables need adjusted anyway? Are you sure it's not a clutch issue?

    dave
    indy
     
  10. RAYMAN

    RAYMAN Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Mar 10, 2004
    315
    Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Raymond Santilli
    From cold, mine will not go into reverse or 1st, only second, so I put it in second roll a few inches, then into reverse, Then it's always hard to get in 1st, and of coarse I have to skip second until it warms up. But it's overall stubborn and too notchy.
     
  11. davey_jones

    davey_jones Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2002
    781
    wherever it's sunny
    Full Name:
    Dave
    So "notchiness" is from the cables? I thought that was more of an issue with being cold...
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    15,401
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    You will never really get it to be smooth as butter, but you can improve it so it will downshift into second more easily. But the notchy feel of the gear selection will remain. It can take a far amount of time to set these things up just right. I have been lucky with many of them just needeing a little tweek here or there, but I have spent the better part of 2 days trying to set one up that was NEVER right, right from the factory. I got it working fairly well, but it was no were near what I would call smooth.

    I have found that there is know one particular way to set these things up. Some I have set up in gear others I have had better results with the selector in neutral and "feeling" the centering point. Just keep at it and remember a little goes along way, and to make small adjustments as you go.
     
  14. ILuv4Res

    ILuv4Res F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 8, 2002
    6,509
    Full Name:
    Fred
    Mine is not that bad. It is just a bit more tempermental when cold. Once it warms up, everything shifts much better (but still not like a Honda/Toyota). Typically, if I match engine revs w/ gears, it shifts smoother. 5th is sometimes stiff though.
     
  15. davey_jones

    davey_jones Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2002
    781
    wherever it's sunny
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Perhaps more smoothness could be obtained by installing one of those "speed shifter plates". Hill Engineering makes them I think..

    It will be interesting to see how his changes/adjustments turn out.
    Please post when you are done!!!!

    dave
    indy
     
  16. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    15,401
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    The notchy shift feel of the 348 is the result of the cable set up and the layout of the 348 trans. The speed shifter plate will not help out with the feel of the trans..it will however make your shifts alittle faster because it slides you directly to the next gear selection. Funny thing is Ferrar went back to the shifter rod with the 355..much better feel, because to the notchy trans in the 348. They once again did the cable thing with the 360 which shifts quite nicely! weird
     
  17. spider348

    spider348 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,170
    MA
    Full Name:
    John
    Adjusted the linkage on my 348 spider. Fellow Ferrari enthusiast Birdman observed upon driving my 348 that it shifts as easily as his Honda. I do not know if it shifts that well but it does shift as well as my former TR or 308.
    I adjusted the linkage in neutral. Disconnected all the connections in the “shift” box under the car. Made certain the shift shaft was in the neutral, feel the shaft lock in position. Connected all so that the shift lever was centered in the gate. Since 2~3 are centered in the gate, the other positions should be correct. Once you establish a correct position datum for any given gear position, the gate controls positioning for everything else.
    Regarding the yoke referenced on the shift shaft, if I recall correctly, this is not adjustable. The yoke has a clamp bolt that mates to a radiused area on the shift shaft. Locks in place. I could be wrong here, my memory is not all that reliable.
    Hope this helps.
     
  18. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    I drove Spider348's car 2 weeks ago and I was amazed by the smoothness of the shifter. It was the first thing I noticed (well, after the exhaust note). Since I had never heard that 348's had notchy transmissions before that, I did not go into it with a preconceived notion about it being "bad." It shifted as smoothly as my Toyota. Much smoother than my 308 for sure which is pretty notchy. I assure you that when things are right, the 348 shifts beautifully, unless perhaps earlier transmissions had a different design or something (I'm no expert on 348's).

    Birdman
     
  19. NC348

    NC348 Karting

    Feb 18, 2003
    154
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    James I. Movich
    I would have to agree with birdman. my shifts very nicely. i think as good as, or even better than my previous 308.

    BUT....after reading all of these i hope i NEVER have a problem.
     
  20. RAYMAN

    RAYMAN Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Mar 10, 2004
    315
    Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Raymond Santilli
    I'm wondering if you could jack the rear end up and make adjustments, then drive the car while on the jackstands.... letting the wheels spin in the air. This would be better than actually driving the car back and forth to the garage jacking and lowering each time an adjustment is made.

    Is this safe and does it make sense?
     
  21. davey_jones

    davey_jones Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2002
    781
    wherever it's sunny
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Makes sense to me - would save a ton of time too.
    Could you imagine the car coming off the jack stands!? OUCH!
     
  22. SFchallenge

    SFchallenge F1 World Champ

    Jun 28, 2004
    11,930
    Sgp, KL, HK & London
    Full Name:
    Jon Wijaya
    Well, I'm having the same notchy gear selecting problem & so bad it broke my shift lever!! It took several trips to my mechanic & one experienced guy to point out the problem. Most guys thought my gear box was gone.

    It's the shifting cables. I posted my problem earlier. It's been adjusted & now much easier to live with. It's still tough to engage 1st sometimes & one of the two cables is worn & I've ordered a brand new pair of cables to change. Costs about US$1000 each... My mechanic has seen one 348 with broken cables before. So, those guys out there with this problem should really spend some vaulable time to sort it out. You wouldn't want to drag in one of the gear limping home.

    I've tried a '94 355 + Challenge exhaust yesterday with a new clutch replacement. Really easy to drive but noisy exhaust. It's like a Japanese car with super-light power steering & better visibility. It was such a civilised car but I prefer my 348 which is more involving & "raw".
     
  23. GOS 348

    GOS 348 Karting

    Jan 17, 2004
    108
    Edenbridge, Kent
    Full Name:
    Chris Gosling
    Hi guys,

    My problem is that it suddenly became difficult to get 4th and 5th on the way home after a track day.
    It is notchy to move the lever in neutral across into the 4/5th plane and then feels like pushing a rod through an over tight bush when going into 4th and 5th. It nearly bends the gear lever. Most people who have tried it are afraid to push it hard enough to get it into gear.
    There is no synchromesh noise when it does go in and it drives perfectly.
    I have adjusted the cables at the rear several times with the lever both in neutral and in 2nd. All other gears slide in easy but nothing makes any difference to 4th or 5th.
    Last night took the whole rear assembly apart. Cables are very free, cable pivot peice is free,the block that the pivot is fixed to is free BUT if you remove the locating pin that is fixed to the engine and which the pivot block slides along (this holds the pivot in a straight plane) I can get every gear perfectly!!! I have changed the pivot block to one that has no wear marks in the side groove and adjusted the locating pin so that the wear marks on that are not in contact with anything.
    Is the problem still cable adjustment?
    HELP!!!!!!!
     
  24. spider348

    spider348 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,170
    MA
    Full Name:
    John
    You appear to have checked all the visible components and have found everything in order. The last component in the shift linkage is the shift fork. The same fork controls 4th and 5th. The forks are on 3 transverse shafts inside the gearbox housing. The fork is clamped on the shaft with a certain degree of adjustment. Correct shift fork position is critical. If the fork “shifted” to either side you would experience the problem described. As you move the lever side to side you engage the required linkage to the correct shift fork. The forward and backward motion controls the movement of the shift fork to engage 1st/Rev, 2nd/3rd and 4th/5th gears. Have you tried shifting carefully into 4th or 5th with the gate removed? This could tell a lot. I apologize for my poor verbalization skills.
    If this is the case, the gearbox must be removed and the fork located in the correct position.
    Please understand this is only my opinion. You had best check with someone with far more experience than I. Hope this helps.
     
  25. GOS 348

    GOS 348 Karting

    Jan 17, 2004
    108
    Edenbridge, Kent
    Full Name:
    Chris Gosling
    Thanks for the reply.
    I have removed the gate and it makes no difference.
    Mike at QV Ascot, England has also told me today that he thinks it is the internal 4th/5th selector that has slipped. Not common on 348's but was on 308's when raced.
    Looks like the box is coming out!
     

Share This Page