Adventures of a 95 Verde Mugello GT | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Adventures of a 95 Verde Mugello GT

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Aerosurfer, Jan 19, 2022.

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  1. Davidspop

    Davidspop Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2019
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    Lance Malcolm
    I too love working on all my cars.. 456GT no different.. I have thought my low end acceleration was "less than optimal"... I am going to check this arm on mine as I have not noticed a broken arm, but maybe....
     
  2. Davidspop

    Davidspop Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2019
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    Lance Malcolm
    @Aerosurfer How difficult was it to refill the transaxle? I have the fluids, just need to put her on the lift and spend a fun Saturday....
     
  3. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    Filling was easy, just need a pump and clear tubing. Long ago I took a pump off a shampoo bottle which screwed right onto the Mobil 1 gear oil bottles, however both the big and small Redline bottles had different size openings so the pump didnt screw cleanly. The little ones it wedged in easily. The big gallon jug was a wider mouth, so i just had to be careful not to let it slip out of my grip. It was a cool day when i did it, so it took awhile pumping that thick oil.

    The fill plug is a 12mm Hex socket. Different (of course) from the drain plug
     
  4. Aerosurfer

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    Also posted in the Technical section, but wanted best chance to get a solution...

    Noticed my ABS pump to master cylinder hose is developing what looks like a rupture. I dont see any leaks as of now, but it seems like the integrity is definately compromised.

    The hose is part number 70000533

    And the ring kit around the Banjo bolt is

    Part number 70000510

    Both seem to be used on V8 models of the late 80s-early 90s as well. Any tips replacing this as far as bleeding the pump afterwards? Looks accessable and pretty straightforward, which likely means im missing something important? Cant really figure out why this failed where it did. Is there an alternative piece or (dare i try) a used one thats safe to use? It really looks like something a hydraulic shop should be able to recreate
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    Any chance these are double lined and the outter sheathing is not as critical?
     
  5. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    Nov 21, 2020
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    Got my trunk put back together! Say what you will about occasional Ferrari build quality, every piece of panel, carpet and screws fell in the exact place I removed it from and fits nice and tight. After 2 weeks since my fuel pump repair there is no gas smell, so I will call this one complete!


    Im now chasing an intermittent 1-6 check engine light (SDL does NOT come on) seems to come at idle and lower RPM cruising, but has been going away under load. Hoping its electrical not air leak somewhere.

    For confirmation... bank 1-6 is the Right side of the car, with MAF from the left, coul/plugs as well as O2 and thermocouple from the right. ECU is right (LHD) Passenger footwell


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  6. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    Nov 21, 2020
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    Man this car is enjoyably fast! I can see why the gas mileage is terrible, its just so much fun to lay into those revs.... and the sound!

    Anyways, still trying to track down the root cause of my Check engine 1-6 light.. i feel i have so many variables from well intended repairs, i actually have no idea what cause or solution may be, but i feel mostly its electrical and (hopefully) simple...

    I have resprayed all connectors i could find with electrical cleaner, i removed and reseated the right side ECU plug in the foot well. I have a button attached to the ECU and mounted on the inside of the panel. Is this the blinker code reader/reset? Can someone summarize how to properly use this?

    I attempted to change my O2 sensor today, but had the wrong size O2 socket. Still recleaned connectors underneath. Will revisit this next week. May reverse O2 plugs before i change sensors to see if light changes banks.

    This evening my intermittent CEL 1-6 light went steady on a quick drive and unlike before, didnt go away at higher power setting. No apparent loss of power however.
    Prior to fixing the TB, it would have been bank 1-6 doing all the driving on the motor, as the other bank was essentially at idle airflow regardless of RPM. Coincidence to all the work done or possible cause.

    Lastly, tonight when i put the car back on the lift i decided to poke around with the temperature gun, it had been off a few minutes but the heat soak on the Cats and exhaust collector was about 40* warmer still on the right side vs same spots on the left. Not at all scientific and i didnt restart it to see what temps were while idling.

    Sorry Im all over the map right now.

    On a tangent and shameless plug to another car of mine, if anyone is looking for a big Mercedes coupe, my CL500 is on BaT right now

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-mercedes-benz-cl500-11/
     
  7. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    Can someone help me confirm blink codes off my 2.7 car?

    Im making out 1211 or 1121 on my bank 1-6

    Is this relevant with the engine not running. I have no seemingly performance issues or RPMs when driving, just a steady light now that was previously intermittent. Not sure if i ended the video too soon

     
  8. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
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    Robert Batt
    Have you checked the ignition leads? I had a check engine light because one of the leads started to break down. Initially just a flicker of a light but then it became worse after a few days. More noticeable when the engine was hot. Unburnt on that bank might also account for the hotter cats.
     
  9. Aerosurfer

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    Reset the ECU, turned off the battery switch. Cleaned and swapped the MAF as well.

    Long drive, light came back intermittently. Pulled blinker code, got 1114. I changed out the 1-6 O2 sensor and so far light is staying out. Car is running and performing fantastic thru it all
     
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  10. Aerosurfer

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    Todays episode in 'How the wrench turns'....

    Have a startup bearing noise that sounds external for a few minutes when cold. Pulled the right side cover off the Alternator and accessories looking for anything obvious. Nothing jumped out relating to which pulley may need attention, however it seems like the Alternator belt is off a tooth on the Crank pulley and slightly hanging off on the Idler.

    I Don't have the WSM in front of me, but how do you set belt tension? Is it all by Alternator adjustment? Id like to fix this and get it moved properly as well as see if any of the pulleys have a noticeable issue?

    Its only been a few hundred miles now since a previous owner had a 5 figure major service done at a dealership in 2019... really makes you wonder.
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  11. franschman

    franschman Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2017
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    Bart
    Tension is by the alternator. Check all bearings. In my car I replaced all bearings as I found some with water ingress.
     
  12. Aerosurfer

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    So how do you set measure how tight to set the tension?

    If i may get ahead of myself... and hopefully assuming its the tensioner pulley making noise, it seems the bearing assembly is avaiable, part 123350, are these just swap out/swap in with a pair of Snap ring pliers?
     
  13. franschman

    franschman Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2017
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    I had mine from Hill/Superformance (UK). Can’t remember any difficulties in fitting them.
     
  14. Aerosurfer

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    Ok so my honeymoon may be over and I’m about to dive deep…. Bear with me…

    while still waiting for my new tensioner bearings to arrive, I decided to at least correct the belt pictured above. Prior to adjusting I checked the belt tension and found it low at around 120Hz. I Loosened the alternator and corrected the belt around the crank pulley as it had either been installed wrong or slipped a notch. Either way the tension was incorrect. Inspected tensioner, alternator and A/C pulley, all spun freely without issue (unscientific observation). Actually removed the tensioner to inspect, again with new ones on the way. Reset tension, to about 168Hz. Checked security on the alternator assembly.

    I started the car with the belt cover off. No bearing noise or odd sounds. Smooth as can be! I’ll chalk up the noise to slippage. Now is where things get interesting. I let the car idle for 15 mins on the lift as I wanted to get oil closer to temp. While poking around and observing it running from underneath, I notice when I shine a light on the timing belt for cylinders 1-6 it appears the lower timing gear has a bit of a wobble. Shot some short videos attached to see what you think.

    After I stopped the motor, I rechecked tension on the Alternator belt, still at 168Hz. While I had access I strummed the timing belt a few inches above the lower timing gear and came back 55HZ!! Not where I expected it to be. Not since less than 1000 miles have passed since known major by a Texas Dealership (prior to my ownership) in 2019. But combined with a slack accessory belt it really makes me wonder if the previous owners 5 figure bill is all subject to review. According to the receipt, Ferrari timing tensioner bearings were used, not Hill Engineering ones. Either way it’s my problem to deal with now… how should I proceed?

    I assume get All 4 belt covers off now and. Assess how the other belts are, want to better observe the timing pulley(s). I’m hoping I don’t need to pull the front engine cover and replace entire timing gear assemblies.

    I hadn’t planned to do belts myself, and was hoping to not attack it so soon, but the more I read and as I have dove into the car thus far, I think I trust my skill level…. But haven’t made that decision yet. Anyways a little guidance or suggested path forward is appreciated for my next steps.

    sorry for the choppy footage, trying to aim a cellphone, hold a flashlight and deal with fans pulling hot radiator air onto my hands. I think the last few seconds of the second video are the best footage


     
  15. franschman

    franschman Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2017
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    Bart
    You can do it! Just prepare yourself and take your time.
     
  16. Aerosurfer

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    Thanks... still trying to figure out what to expect...

    Do these fail in pairs or should be replaced in pairs? Not assuming the worst am i just replacing the entire timing gear(s) and inspecting the woodruff key and shaft? Or plan to open the engine cover. If the other pulley has no motion and the tension is in check, i assume i still should do both sides.. keeps the schedule even?

    What else besides 'just' a cam belt service now? According to the 2019 reciept valves were checked, WP rebuilt, updated hoses, etc. It was otherwise a thorough bill. Its due for coolant flush and oil change anyhow
     
  17. carguy246

    carguy246 Formula 3
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  18. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    #93 Aerosurfer, Apr 22, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022

    Thanks! I have solved my check engine light. Ended up swapping out the right side O2 sensor, so far has not returned. Now onto the more pressing issues of the timing components and assessment.

    had posted about the resolution on another thread, forgot to close it out on here.
     
  19. carguy246

    carguy246 Formula 3
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    Nov 8, 2006
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    By the way, 1121 is an rpm sensor code which you will get if you read the codes when the engine isn't running, so you can ignore that one. The 1211 is the one you want to concentrate on.

    Here is some info from my348.com on 1211:

    Lambda regulation Additive value for self adaptation (O2 sensor or coolant temperature sensor or MAF) 1211
    Lambda regulation multiplicative value for self adaptation 1212
    Lambda regulation intake manifold compensation (MAF or O2?) 1212 (1213?)

    *Lambda codes 1211 and 1212 refer to the fact that the emissions O2 sensors are going full tilt to regulate fuel mixture and it's still not enough. I would unplug them and run the car to add to the data base. If the car then runs normally then something in the O2 system needs to be considered. If on the other hand if it persists we can consider the code a sympathetic action.
    It could also be a problem with the coolant temp sensors. Way too many times I have seen a broken wire at that connector cause similar symptoms and it would also cause a Lambda regulation code.
    An open connection or high resistance at the coolant temp sensor will make the A/F mixture very rich. Something it can tolerate when cold but less so when you get some temperature in the motor. *thanks, rifledriver


    If the 1211 code appears on one side of your engine only, then you'll want to swap MAF's from your left engine side to your right engine side (this is also a good time to clean your MAFs by spraying starter fluid into each end of each MAF) and vice-versa. When you next drive your 348, notice if your 1211 code either returns on the same side of your engine (if so, then your problem is not MAF related) or if it switches sides to follow where you moved your MAF in the above side-to-side swap (which may very well hint that the MAF itself is the problem).

    If the1211 problem isn't MAF related per the above test, then swap O2 sensors from side to side when/if your code returns to see if the issue is related to a failing O2 sensor. See also: O2

    If your 1211 problem isn't MAF sensor or O2 sensor related, then replace your coolant temp sensors. If this doesn't solve your 1211 issue, then you probably have a fundamental fuel mixture problem caused by any number of things such as a failing spark plug, bad spark plug wire, bad coil, failing alternator, failing fuel pressure regulator, failing fuel pump or bad fuel pump relay, cams mis-timed, etc.
     
  20. carguy246

    carguy246 Formula 3
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    Nov 8, 2006
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    Congrats. Let's hope it was the O2 sensor and it doesn't come back.
     
  21. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    394
    Continental Europe
    Overtightening the timing belts may have caused excessive wear on the bearings of the intermediate gears, but to the point of getting such a wobble from one of the pulleys...?

    My 550 has about 60k miles and when the time to replace the timing belts comes I plan to remove the cover, replace the 4 bearings with upgraded HE units and replace the plastic pads guiding the chain for the oil pump. We don't want these to break...
     
  22. Aerosurfer

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    4 bearings? You mean the Hill tensioner PT550 and the drive pulley bearing 170787? Is this ultimately what I may be in for….

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/575m-timing-gear-replacement.610733/

    is the oil pump chain guide simply a ‘while your in there’ item or is there real need to address it?
     
  23. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
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    The 4 bearings holding the drive gears, 2 in the block and 2 in the cover.
    I just noticed your 456 had only 22k miles, so the plastic guides "should" still be ok. I believe they are visible when the cover is off.
     
  24. Aerosurfer

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    I suppose i need to get the timing gears off and see what im dealing with. See if the Woodruff key has wallowed out the shaft. Go from there
     
  25. Aerosurfer

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    #100 Aerosurfer, Apr 22, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
    Got the right side timing cover off today...

    I think i need some immediate attention. Belt is definately loose. Tough to tell if there is play in the drive pulley, at least not so much as to be inherently loose when prodded with a screwdriver. Anyone who has done these, can you tell by looking at the ring nut if more threads should be showing?

    Videos are most telling.

    For my own sake. Is it reasonable to reset the tension on the belt, simply to observe if the drive pulley is still out of true when running? Obviously i need to do the belts and tensioner. Car is otherwise bone dry, cam seals behind look good. Really the whole drive pulley looks beat to ****.
     

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