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Advice needed-Looking at a Daytona

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Simon, Jun 28, 2004.

  1. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    Aug 29, 2003
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    Hi all
    I'm looking for a bit of help in what to look for when buying a Daytona.

    I've done a search of the old board and this one and found some useful information. But I hope nobody minds of I start another thread especially as this seems to be where the Daytona guys hang out.

    I'd also appreciate you views on how useable these cars are if regularly driven.

    Next weekend I'm going to look at a car for sale. Its a very high mileage, unrestored car owned by the same owner for the last 25 years. I understand the owner is an elderly gentleman who now feels the car is too much for him.

    I've spoken to the garage owner where this car is regularly serviced and he says the car is driven regularly and has had no problems over the 25 years.

    It is "untidy".

    From photos and discussion with the garage, it appears the interior is in very good condition but the body work and paint work are not so. The paint is flat and there are some parking dents around the front. I know the frame, especially under the nose is delicate but I understand these dents are superficial.

    The engine is sound...apparently...but has one or two drops of oil and an increased oil consumption due to the high mileage (don't ask me what it is but it is VERY high)

    I am not looking for a shiney Daytona. What I want is a car I can drive regularly, rain or shine.


    Thanks for your help guys.
    Simon
     
  2. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
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    Andreas
    For general Daytona information I'd recommend the book "V-12 Ferraris".

    Also get a copy of Forza #31 where an owner describes in detail what it is like to have one of these. Also fairly detailed information on how to service a Daytona engine and how not to.
     
  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    actually "25 yrs one owner" and "driven" are two good things i like to hear when Fcar shopping. Good Luck!

    Paint and trim are the cheapest things you can buy for a Ferrari! HTH
     
  4. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    Sounds like it will need a rebuild soon, I'd factor in $30k for that, probably transmission issues also add another $10k,suspension? body, paint, etc. $15k, unless this car is real cheap you'll end up paying more for this one than a decent one unless you like projects
     
  5. billb

    billb Formula Junior
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jun 4, 2001
    407
    Shorewood, IL
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    Bill Badurski
    Things to look for:

    Rust- bottom halves of doors, quarter panels between window vent and wheel arch, rear undertray along side of exhaust resonator depressions, chassis in general

    Oil leaks- timing case often cracked at studs for chain cover due to improper maintenance, rear main seal, front crank seal, cam covers, distributor right-angle drive to block gaskets, transaxle side seals or front gasket

    Oil consumption- stuck rings due to inactivity, broken rings due to wear, out-of-round cylinder liners, worn valve guides

    Transmission- grinding when up or down shifting into 2nd or 3rd means bad synchros

    Don't get me wrong, I love em and have had three. An engine overhaul will run $25k and up, gearbox about $3000 typically. Do a compression and / or leak-down test, drive the car making a list of issues, then up on the hoist for a quick check of fresh leaks, etc. If initial compression test was poor, recheck after the drive as cold-stuck rings will affect the numbers.
     
  6. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    Isn't it just great to read an intelligent post where Simon has taken the effort to gain information BEFORE posting. Hats off to you Simon and while I know little about the running of a Daytona I would rather buy the car where you know what you are getting (if the price is right) than the one that looks all flash ...

    I still say cars were meant to be driven not looked at and machines usually like been used.

    Pete's saying good luck and looking forward to the first drive report
     
  7. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Listen to Bill.... He "da man".

    If you really just want a good driver, then I would inspect very closely for rust as Bill mentioned but not sweat the paint and interior so much. Actually, having very old paint in this case may be a blessing. Brand new shiny paint can hide all sorts of horrors! If the paint is 25 years old and there is no bubbling to indicate rust, your probably ok.

    In addition to all the stuff Bill mentioned, on an original high mileage engine I would expect worn valve seals. That would cause some smoking and oil consumption. AS Bill said, a compression test and leak down, done properly and after a good tuning on the car will tell you lots.

    If the car drives ok, has good compression and leakdown but just uses some oil and you can get it at a price that makes sense for the condition.... go for it!

    Post some pics.


    Terry
     
  8. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    Thanks for the posts everyone.
    I'll take some pictures and let you know how it goes.
    Cheers
    Simon
     
  9. 365boy

    365boy Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
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    John Leaman
    The more I drive mine, the better it gets...

    John
     
  10. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    Aug 29, 2003
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    A quick question to the Daytona boys...
    why do some cars have orange side light lenses and others half orange half clear...see the two pictures

    Are these parts still available and if so how much?

    Cheers
    Simon

    P.S. the Daytona investigation is on going...I'll post some pictures and information in the near future.
     
  11. ferrari sulla pellicola

    ferrari sulla pellicola Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2004
    614
    Los angeles
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    Richard
    The 2 color lens is the euro spec while all amber was for the us market.i recall searching thru piles of used lenses at Bill DeCarr's trying to find 2 of either type that werent too faded for a Daytona i had purchased that came off the truck with a mismatched pair
     
  12. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 3, 2002
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    Andreas
    In addition the UK cars used all amber lenses as well.

    Rear lenses were all red in the US btw whereas Euro cars (including UK) use red and amber.
     
  13. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    Apr 8, 2003
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    Hear Hear!

    the daytona is a great car! one that has been driven and serviced is a great car.
     
  14. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Of coarse what you really want your front lights to look like is this:
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    Yep. Is that yours Terry?

    I LOVE the original Euro front treatment.
     
  16. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Yup... my pride and joy. VIN 12775, 1969 model, the 51st Daytona built. Its actually at Bo Pirkles shop right now getting some minor paint touchup done and Im in the process of replacing the seat covers, door panels and center console with all new leather in tan/black. IT was originally Dino Blue Metallic, but has been red since the early 1970s. Someday it will need a full paint job and I'll take it back to the original color, but thats some ways off since overall the current paint is very nice. Bo Pirkle does amazing paint work, but is HORRIDLY slow.



    Terry
     
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Yea, I've been following your saga there.

    I've dealt with body shops that were slow and did **** work! LOL
    Not recently thankfully, but years ago!

    Let me know how your trim stuff from Reoriginals comes out. I have met the Owner and may use them for my two 308s.

    Thanks!
     
  18. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    I think my dream of owning a Daytona just died.
    Sour grapes on...It probably would have bankrupted me anyway...Sour grapes off.

    The car I was looking at was a 1969 Silver/Beige Daytona. Totally unmolested, original car....I fell in love with it immediately.
    Same owner since 1978 (second owner) and used regularly. 200,000kms.
    Interior was fanatstic, engine was tight, no smoke or oil. Main problem was the paint was flat and the body was a bit shabby. Dents, chrome work with brown spots. But no rust in the doors etc.

    I was told what the guy wanted, and the price seemed right to me.
    I am in the process of selling my 328 and my Austin Healey when I get the phone call today that the owner has decided to restore the body...the price has almost doubled. I am gutted. But, hey, its only a car. No??
     
  19. Boxer 512

    Boxer 512 Formula Junior
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    Seb King
    Simon,

    Did you get the S/n ?

    Seb
     
  20. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Keep looking, this was not the car for you. Took me a long time to find and e-type and a TVR, but at the end they were both nice cars. There's a Daytona out there waiting for you.
     
  21. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    Cheers.

    Seb
    the number is 12833

    Simon
     
  22. Boxer 512

    Boxer 512 Formula Junior
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    Seb King
    Simon,

    An original Swiss car, 1st Owner was Barras, It was fitted with Scaglietti Body Number 064 and was number 69 in the build sequence.

    Would have been a good buy.... Next time M8....?

    Seb
     
  23. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    I would just like to say thanks to the people who helped with advice while this was on going, especially Bill Badurski.
    Cheers
    Simon
     
  24. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Simon....

    That car was built 18 cars after mine in the production run (mine is #12775).

    If the pics you posted are of the actual car... be glad you didnt buy it as it has many obvious things wrong.

    The car originally would have had the plexi nose. There were no popup lights on 1969 or 1970 model Daytonas. Also, I doubt very much the car would have been delivered with headrests on the seats. The early cars (mine included) had no headrests at all, just the buckets. The rear view mirror is also wrong.

    This of coarse brings up the question of why are these things wrong? Was the car wrecked hard in the front at some point and when rebuilt converted to popup lights? Why are the seats not correct? What else is not correct?

    I would be very wary of this car.


    Terry
     
  25. barchetta

    barchetta Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
    632
    Terry,

    Do you happen to know how many plexiglass-nose Daytona's were built? If a plexi-glass nose Daytona was involved in an accident, would it have been difficult (or impossible?) to obtain the necessary replacement parts to bring the car back to original specifications? I seem to recall seeing a number of the early cars over the years and at least a few were repaired or updated to the later pop-up headlamps. Would there be another rational for updating the nose besides the aesthetics? I would imagine that the pop-up headlamps provided superior lighting a night?

    Thanks,
    Barchetta

    Thanks
     

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