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After the crash of 0846 at the 1966 Targa Florio...

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by FerrariStuff.com, Dec 25, 2005.

  1. FerrariStuff.com

    FerrariStuff.com Formula 3

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    #1 FerrariStuff.com, Dec 25, 2005
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    Lorenzo Bandini returned to the Ferrari factory only to find nobody of the responsible personnel at the Racing Department (Gestione Sportiva) and he ran to Daddy Enzo who in turn burst out in anger and wrote this internal communications sheet...

    "I have to say that, contrary to popular belief, this morning at 11.10H, none of the responsible persons where present etc etc etc..... to receive Bandini who had returned from the Targa Florio with highly interesting observations and suggestions etc etc etc."

    He then rants on about the presence of personnel, also on festive days etc etc.

    As you can read in the (in?)famous 0846 thread, Bandini and Vaccarella had crashed 0846 during the 1966 targa... I believe Jim G. Has also posted pics of the wreck at the scene.

    An interesting piece of Ferrari "internal" communication...

    P.S. The print reference shows that Ferrari had 100 blocs of 100 of these sheets printed in December 1963 and by April 1966 they still lasted...

    Enjoy and Merry Christmas!
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  2. Miltonian

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    #2 Miltonian, Dec 25, 2005
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    Bandini put 0846 upside-down at the Targa in 1966 (never seen a pic of the damage). Vaccarella put 0846 into the curb/stone wall at the Targa in 1967 (pictures have been posted).

    Neat historical piece, Jack. Thanks for posting!
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  3. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Coolness! Is there any way to see that memo in crisper resolution?
     
  4. FerrariStuff.com

    FerrariStuff.com Formula 3

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    I'll post one in the highest resolution allowed here. Will probably crop it a bit too gain space for the text.
     
  5. FerrariStuff.com

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    #5 FerrariStuff.com, Dec 25, 2005
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  6. FerrariStuff.com

    FerrariStuff.com Formula 3

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    For me it's interesting to see that bandini just crashed 0846, also in those days not a cheap car... yet still managed to get Enzo to write this memo...

    Does tell al lot about the relationship between the two I think...
     
  7. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    cool pics, its like this car has been surrounded in a mist its whole life, this , that and the other happening.

    good thing for us its in good hands now. :)
     
  8. R33

    R33 Formula Junior

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    The best in my mind!!
    Some more interesting photos to follow soon aswell!!
     
  9. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    cool, all of your stuff rocks !!!
     
  10. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    Something isn't right. The memo is dated 17/4/66. The Targa Florio was held on May 8, 1966 (8/5/66, in European style). I'd like to see a complete translation from someone who is fluent in Italian.

    I just checked a calendar from 1966. April 17th was a Sunday, if that makes any difference. Before the Targa, there was the 1000km of Monza on April 25th.
     
  11. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Other option is it is a typo.
     
  12. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    Yes, his pictures do ROCK!

    ;)
     
  13. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    It could be that the internal memo had to do with a scouting mission or testing at the Targa, rather than having to do with the race itself. It may mean that Enzo was PO'ed because no one was there to take data to be used in setting up the car for the race itself.

    Also....there appears to have been minor coachwork changes from 1966 to 1967...probably because the car was no longer a P3 but became THE P3/4! :)
     
  14. DeuceRooster

    DeuceRooster Karting

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    Awesome stuff, thanks for sharing!
     
  15. morcal

    morcal Formula Junior
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    Mr.Ferrari refers loud and clear in his internal memo that L.Bandini came back from the Targa Florio free practices and didn`t find the technical staff to straightaway debriefing. His attitude to be VERY angry and even unpleasant with engineers and staff on Monday when races did go wrong/cars failed was well known and most of them ( even senior staff ) were sincerely terrified to be there and to be yelled at.
     
  16. morcal

    morcal Formula Junior
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    The critical text free translation :
    ========
    To: GS ( Gestione Sportiva, racing department )
    GS10/GS/20/GS30/ GS40 ( sections of the GS )
    PR1 : Production shop #1
    CO13 : Control # 13

    I have verified that, notwithstanding this situation is well known and that I am very upset of it, today 11:10 AM no responsible (manager, editor note ) was on duty in the shop to receive driver Bandini who did expressly return from Targa Florio ( the track , editor note ) to report interesting observations and suggestions related to the testing he performed .
    =========

    The remaining text refers to establishing mandatory shop attendance by managers at every week end whenever races or critical testing were performed
     
  17. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    That makes sense. Targa Florio testing not after the race where Bandini flipped 0846.

    Dr Stu.

    You are quite right. That tail is 0846's P3 tail. Note rear brake duct scoops.
    There are other differences as well to 0846's P 3/4 tail.
    (Number of sill slots, FI vents, rear openings)

    Best
     
  18. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    To Morcal: Thanks for confirming my thoughts that the ememo was based on a testing run, rather than on the 1966 race itself. My Italian is not that great.

    To FS: I had never seen that photo of 846 as a P3 in the 1966 Targa before, and it shows after some study that there actually was some more than minor cocahwork changes when the car was transformed into THE P3/4 for 1967. Thanks for sharing the photo!
     
  19. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    The 275 P3 caption is very important as well as this photo looks to be from a newspaper and they would have gotten the information from the race organizers. I think this really makes it look like Wayne Sparling was correct and that the P3 engines could be and were run as both 3 liter or 4 liter. The extra gas milage could mean an extra lap at the Targa which would have been huge.
     
  20. Miltonian

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    #20 Miltonian, Dec 26, 2005
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    This is an interesting thread. Just for giggles, since Morcal or some other member may be able to translate the Italian, I'm curious what this section of text says about the P3/0846 at the 1966 Targa, since "4000" appears in brackets a couple of times. Something about engine size???

    This is from the race report in Quattroruote, June 1966.
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  21. Miltonian

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    #21 Miltonian, Dec 26, 2005
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  22. morcal

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    From the "Quattroruote" article reading it seems that the P3 driven by Bandini/Vaccarella was supposed to have a 4L engine. To be noted however the comment that short before same car attended the 1000 KM of Monza , were the P3 likely could have had this engine. Monza track at that time did allow very high speed and did usually require big engines to deploy maximum power. The car however at next coming Targa Florio could have been fitted with a 3,3 L engine in order to be lighter and easier to drive for 7 hours on open roads going from seaside to the mountains at each of the 40 minutes laps. To be noted that the winners ( Muller/Mairesse ) had a Porsche 906 with 2L engine. Have researched in my files ( La leggendaria Targa Florio by P.Fondi ) and Bandini car is always mentioned as 330/P without detail on engine volume. In 1967 Vaccarella/Scarfiotti did race with a 330 P4 and clearly is reported to have the 4L engine. That because the competition scaled -up to bigger engines ( Porsche 907 2.2L, Chaparral 2F 7L, Ford GT40,). As you know, Nino Vaccarella did touch with the rear wheel in Collesano ( his village ) after having set a record first lap in 37'31". The second 330/P (3,3L? ) driven by Muller/Guichet had a differential failure and the winner was again Porsche with a 907 2.2L driven by Stommelen/Hawkins.
     
  23. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Paragraph uno

    Eye-talyun:

    Non sorprenderà che la maggioranza degli abbandoni sia stata causata non già da noie meccaniche, ma da uscite de strada. I politi racconteranno alla fine che l'insidia più temibileera rappresentata dalle condizioni della strada, ora asciutta ora cosparsa di fango. Bandini, che con Vaccarella disponeva dell'unica Ferrari <330 P3> fu vittima, invece, dell'imperizia di un concorrente, che, vendendolo giungere alle sue spalle, gli fece un segnale apparentemente ambiguo. Bandini lo interpretò come un invito a passare. L'altro, inveche, intendeva dire: <<aspetta, un momento, faccio la curva e poi me scanso>>. Fu cosi che, investito a tergo, proprio mentre stava per portare a termine il sorpasso, Bandini fini fuori strada, rovesciandosi. Si trasse d'impaccio da solo, affanosamente, sfondano con i pugni il plexiglas dello sportello, nel timore, infondato, che la macchina potesse prendere fuoco.

    Engrish:
    Road will not be strange that the majority of the abandonments has been caused not already from mechanical troubles, but from escapes de. The politi ones will tell to the end that it lays a trap it more temibileera represented from the conditions of the road, dry hour hour cosparsa of mud. Bandini, than with Vaccarella had only Ferrari < 330 P3 > was victim, instead, of the imperizia of a contender, than, selling it to reach its shoulders, it made it marks them apparently ambiguous. Bandini interpreted it as I invite to pass. The other, inveche, meant to say: < < it waits for, a moment, I make the curve and me then scanso > >. It was cosi that, invested to back, just while it was in order to carry a.termine I surpass, Bandini fine outside road, overthrowing. It was drawn of impaccio alone, affanosamente, smash in with the fists the plexiglas of the shop, in the fear, infondato, than the machine it could take fire.
     
  24. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Eye-talyun:

    Fu questo, in certo qual modo, l'episodio cruciale della corsa. Sino a quel momento, proprio per le ragioni che abbiamo esposte all'inizio, le cose non erano andate molto ben per la Ferrari. La potente <<330 P3>> che in ogni caso è sembrata a punto (ce n'era bisogno, dopo la bella prova offerta nella <<1000 km>> di Monza?), non era certo la macchina più adatta, consirate la particolari condizioni in sui si è svolta la gara. Quando, al termine dei primi 3 giri, Vaccarella la consegnò a Bandini, che avrebbe dovuto compierne 4, essa aveva ancora molte frecce al suo arco, ma le Porsche errano troppo numerose e troppo a loro agio se quel percorso perché si potesse sperare in una affermazione della <<4000>> dei due italiani. Tuttavia, la <<Targa>> non sarebbe la corsa difficile e cattiva che tutti consciamo se non riserbasse i colpi di scena per i quali si è resa famosa. A conti fatti, cioè dopo i numerosi retiri verificatisi oltre metà gara, la <<4000>> avrebbe potuto reciiare un ruolo, a nostro avviso, rilevante se Bandini fosse riuscito a terminare il suo turno di guida. Sappiamo quanto valga Vaccarella sulle strade, a lui familiari, della, <<Targa>>.

    Engrish:

    It was this, in sure which way, the crucial episode of the race. Until to that moment, just for the reasons that we have exposed to the beginning, the things had not gone a lot very for the Ferrari. Powerful < < the 330 P3 > > that in any case it has seemed to point (ce n' was need, after the beautiful test offered in < < the 1000 km > > of Monza), the machine was not sure more adapted, consirate the particular conditions in on has carried out the contest. When, to the term of the first 3 turns, Vaccarella it delivered it to Bandini, that it would have had to complete 4, it too much had still many arrows to its arc, but the errano Porsche too much numerous and to they comfort if that distance because affirmation of < < the 4000 > could be hoped in one > of the two Italians. However, < < the Plate > > would not be the difficult and bad race that all consciamo if not riserbasse the dramatic turn of events for which it has become famous. To accounts made, that is after the numerous ones retiri taken place beyond half contest, < < the 4000 > > it could have reciiare a role, to our warning, important if Bandini were successful to finish its turn of guide. We know how much is worth Vaccarella on the roads, to he familiar, of, < < Plate > >.
     
  25. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Ete-talyun:

    Negli ultimi 3 giri di corsa, che infatti sareberro toccati a lui, avrebbe certamente dato fondo alle sue energie, e, favorito dal terreno, tornato abbastanza asciutto, probabilmente avrebbe coronato il suo sogno: vincere per due anni consecutivi la prova a lui più cara.

    Questa, in ogni caso, è una semplice supposizione. In realtà, la Porsche ha vinto in maniera indiscutibile. Se a tagliare per prima il traguardo è stata una Porsche non iscritta ufficialmente, le cose non cambiano. Si è ripetuta, né più né meno, la situazione dell'ultima <<24 Ore>> di Le Mans, quando vinse la Ferrari <<250 LM>> di Gregory-Rindt, coi colori del <<North American Racing Team>> di Luigi Chinetti.

    Engrish:

    In last the 3 turns of race, than in fact sareberro it touches you to he, it would sure have given deep to its energies, and, favorite from the land, returned enough dry, probably would have crowned its dream: to gain for two consecutive years the test to he more beloved.

    This, in any case, is one simple supposizione. In truth, the Porsche has won in unquestionable way. If to cut in order before the goal it has been a not enrolled Porsche officially, the things do not change. It has been repeated, neither more neither less, the situation of last << the 24 Hours >> of the Mans, when <<250 LM >> of Gregory-Rindt gained the Ferrari, with the colors of << the North American Racing Team >> of Luigi Chinetti.
     

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