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All 308s: How prone to wear are the rear outer bushings?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by greg328, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Greg
    Aren't these steel barrels with metal washers coated in teflon? They allow no movement, correct? The rubber (or poly, in my case) inner bushings are where deflection occurs in the rear a-arm, right? I noticed one of the teflon washers was coming apart. Is this a big deal?

    Are they prone to wear? My car has 27,000 miles..

    Greg
    1977 308 GTB
     
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  3. jon s

    jon s Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2005
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    spent several happy hours this spring repairing the outer a arm bushings. everything deteriorates and in particular the inner bushings can freeze in the holders and metal gets stripped from the ground finish. since there's no provision from the factory for lubrication expect problems. its not that hard to pull the arms (many previous threads) and i would completely disassemble them and see whats what. I replaced the teflon washers and seals and plan to put a little chain saw bar lube inside the rubber seals every year. good luck. jon s.
     
  4. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Yes, waer is common but seizing through corrosion is even more common.

    If you can hear a creak from the rear suspension, it's most likely these teflon outer bushes.

    It's a fairly simple job to replace them (once you've sourced them), you can press them out with home sockets quite easily, and the chrome tubes inside often polish up like new if the corrosion hasn't taken hold for long.

    Assemble with regular wheel bearing grease and they'll be good for years.

    carl888 on ebay has them.
     
  5. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Phil,
    In order to get to the outer bushes, do I have to pull the entire brake assembly? Any special tools required?
    Which components have to be removed to do this job?

    Greg
    77 308
     
  6. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    The outer bushings can be removed with the brake and driveshaft assembled. The trick is to do one at a time. Finish the top then do the bottom or vice versa. There are no special tools required. Regular wrenches and sockets will do. The parts from Ferrari UK are cheap so order up all the thrust washers and barrels. Clean all the parts nice and give them a good coating in grease before assembly. Just be sure that the thrust washers have their teflon side on the proper face when assembly.

    Another trick, when ordering the parts, order the tiny dowel pins too. They cost next to nothing but it is a royal pain if any of your are missing or get lost during disassembly. Good luck with the project.
     
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  8. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Thanks, Robert.
    What do you mean by "finish top, then do the bottom?"
    Aren't these things just barrels sandwiched by the teflon washers?
    Also, what are the dowel pins for?


    Thanks,
    Greg
     
  9. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Greg what I meant is do one wishbone at a time. This way the brakes and driveshaft is well supported. If you disconnect both the top and bottom wishbone from the outer hub casting, at the same time, suppoting the hub becomes an unecessary hassle. As for the dowel pins, they locate the thrust washers and keep them from spinning. Check the diagrams on the owners site and you'll see what I mean.
     
  10. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    Thanks, Robert..

    Greg
     
  11. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
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    Phil, these teflon bushes are designed for dry application. Lubricating any teflon coating with mineral oil based products destroys the coating. You can use a lithium grease designed for plastics, but no regular grease.

    Best Regards

    Martin
     
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  13. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Using the term teflon is just a slang. I don't know what it is EXACTLY... but using them dry will mean they will wear, seize and/or creak very quickly. Grease them lightly.

    And you can do them all at the same time... there's no need to even disconnect the shock absorber... so the whole hub/brake etc can be left dangling on the shock while all the arms are off together, and then you can clean, blast and paint them all in a batch.

    I use the opportunity to turn the lower inner bolts around, so that they can be removed without having to disturb the lower pickup next time.

    Of course, if the outer rubber bushes are bad too, then do them all.
     
  14. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

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    --quote--
    Of course, if the outer rubber bushes are bad too, then do them all.

    Phil,
    I thought we WERE talking about the outer bushes, and they AREN'T rubber! (steel barrels w/ the teflon washer)
    The INNER bushes are compliant-I just replaced them last spring (ES poly).

    I'd like to replace the outer bushes with as few parts coming off as possible! Do the a-arms have to come off? I wouldn't think so..

    Can the brake/hub remain in place during this operation? Sorry for all the questions--my car is in the shop right now so i can't go outside and get a visual!

    Greg
     
  15. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

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    they are PTFE sinter metal.

    Greg, you have to press the old bushes out. If you don't want the A-arms to come off, you have to use a special tool for this, but I have no clue how much force is needed for the old bushes to come out.
    I would avoid the hassle of doing it on the car because taking the A-arms off, when the hub is already loosened, is a matter of some minutes

    Best Regards

    Martin
     
  16. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    yes, sorry. Meant inner rubber not outer.

    You don't need any special tools to change either outer or inner bushes.

    Just bits of tube or sockets the right size and depth will do fine, and you can even do it in a decent bench vice, but a press is a bit better.
     
  17. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

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    I understood, that Greg does NOT want the A-arms to come off of the car.
    Phil, what do you think ? Could one replace the outer bushes with the A-arms still on the car ? I think it may work with some kind of a special puller self-manufactured for this purpose ( a piece of tube, a solid bar with a hole and a bolt / nut ).
    I designed and manufactured something similar in the past for replacing the rubber bush on the shift shaft and it worked.

    Best Regards

    Martin
     
  18. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    I guess you could do it that way.

    You can change tyres without removing a wheel if you try hard enough. Damn sight easier, quicker and better to take them off though!!!

    I think he thought he'd have trouble hanging the hub while arms removed... hence my comment about not disconnecting shock... not a problem.
     
  19. jon s

    jon s Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2005
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    greg328: the fchat guys are right - remove the a arms. it took me max of 15 minutes per lower arm and the uppers were really quick. the amount of force required to remove the frozen bushings was enough the make doing it on the car a major pain. plus you get to inspect everything and repaint if you like(i found a poorly repaired crack in on of the arms in the flange around one of the bushing holders). the brakes will require removal of the lines and you will need a 10 mm flare wrench for the line nuts. its a pretty easy job and if you have the arms out replace the inner flex bushings. i'm very cheap and still couldn't justify not doing that with the arms out. regards. jon s.
    p.s. last thought: get a bolt acouple of inches longer than the original cross bolt for outer assemply and grind a slight taper on the end. put everthing back together using the longer bolt piece by piece as you go. then push the original back in from the other side. the lock nuts are fine thread metric - buy new ones from metric multistandard components (they have a web site - you can order by phone). good luck.
     
  20. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    you don't need to touch the brakes if you don't want to. They're not in the way at all.
     
  21. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Thanks Phil...

    Greg
     

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