Annual Rally, Perth

Which 550 was it that won, the red or silver (or was it the Barchetta)?

 

Since everyone else might've gone home or gone out by now, I might as well answer I believe it was TW's red 550 (not the Barchetta)

 

Well, if I'm wrong I am sure that there will be no shortage of people whose spidey-sense is tingling at this very moment and will leap online to correct me, but I'm pretty sure that someone said TW won

 

Thanks.

In case anyone is interested I now have the high-res pics from Monday's trackday on my site - 86 pics in total.

www.ozcarsightings.com

 

yeah...Tom's car won class and outright. Tom cleaned up on presentation night.

 

It probably sounded like I was being critical; but I wasn't. It's more likely to be years of built up frustration at the sh*t I have seen/endured in 20yrs of serious concour efforts (this year WASN'T one of them FWIW).
Tom's 550 has had an unbelievable amount of time and money put into it and it is as good as it is possible to get. In reality, there were not any really seriously concour prepared older cars present. If there were, Tom would have been up against it big time.
I agree on picking a class winner inside 5 minutes. When I have judged in the past, I always have a quick look over the field to determine the contenders and the cars "making up the numbers". That way the time can be spent properly on seperating the cars at the top end.

I mentioned the US system simply because it is the most competitive and serious in the world IMO. The rules have evolved over 40 years and I imagine they would be thorough and comprehensive.

Once again, I wasn't being critical of WA's efforts in any way shape or form.

 

Oh dear, see what I mean about concour causing more aggro than any other event
I would suggest that Phil did a VERY thorough job of judging ALL the cars in the originality department. As I said to Phil at the time, as long as you are CONSISTENT across the board that is the main thing. I disagree with some of the things above; but under the FCA rules, how an individual Judge interprets the catagories is subjective and as a result varies tremendously from judge to judge.
At the end of the day the results were not a sursprise to me at all. My perusal of the field led me to much the same conclusions!

 

You have some nice shots there Dingo, well done!

 

No offence taken at all 360C. You are very familiar with concours both in FCA and other groups I'm sure. I've been around enough of them to know that we are yet to find an ideal system. In some respects I think the age bonus is too biased away from the, new cars, but I can understand the justification for it being there. Ultimately it does come down to the fact that the best prepared/presented car on the day won the prize, which I guess is the desired result. That could have changed with some better preparation of some of the other cars present or even if some of the cars that we know are out there took part, but of the cars on the day, the red 550 was the best.

 

Concours judging ... I will say straight out that when I first started in the club I was a determined tracker, and not a "poofter polisher" , as Geoff Petherbridge used to say. By 1992 QLD Rally I realised I had converted my car into an unpleasant road car it was so stiif and noisy, by 1994 it was back to original specs. (almost !!) and I had become keen on Concoursing, especially after Monterey '94.

One of the problems in FC Aus is the system awards points for condition and cleanliness in 4 sections of the car totalling 400 points, originality for 100 points, and section 1 is meant to "reward" older cars and cars that are driven to the event. The other problem is that the judges are chosen on the "last man left standing" is a judge principle

I have missed only a few rallies over the years, and have either entered, judged or been organizing the Concours judging at all of them. Consequently I have seen first hand the dramas that unfold after the scores are worked out .... and I will bet there were dramas in WA.

It never ceases to amaze me that the difference between 1st and 2nd O/A in our system, can be just one point.

I was invited to assist in the judging of Class 6 (275/330/365 GTC/S) at the FCA Nationals in Monterey 2004, Howard Pigdon class 7 - 365 GTB/4 ..... it was an eye opener

I am about to start a campaign to modify the OZ system to that used by the FC America.

VERY BRIEFLY the FC America principles are:

Ferraris are meant to be driven.
No penalties for some level of chipping, road grime etc.
Cars less than 5 years old are not judged.

Cars are broken into classes ... similar to Oz at moment.
3 judges judge, with one "senior" judge one car, with the owner present.

The first question the senior judge asks the owner is "any modifications as far as you are aware?"

That puts the onus on the owner to say what may be unusual, and of course points the judges to an area of contention. The car is started, warmed up and all is checked. Unfortunately the F1 cars where not started up last year, not even the F50 GT1, before it was, once again, heavily crashed at Laguna Seca the next day.

The 3 judges all judge different sections and have a short pow-wow and then tally the scores for each car. It takes about 10 -15 minutes to judge each car, and the owener is NOT encouraged to take part, however the judges did ask questions about every car to the owner.

As I said the "after car judge pow-wow" was good because there was discussion between all the judges as to what was Ok and what was not. I will mention Keith Bluemel was on our team. The n'th degree of originality is not gone into because, as Scott said, not everyone KNOWS what was used by the factory.

However what was obvious was the discussion as to what was PERIOD in style and what wasn't. I thought this system was excellent because it involved all 3 judges in the judging of 1 car.

No penalties for some level of chipping, road grime etc.

100 points Maximum ..... SORT OF similar to our system.
95> = Platinum (can be 0, 1 or ALL the class)
90 - <95 = Gold, only 1 awarded.
85 - <90 = Silver, only 1 awarded.

After the judging, which was over by 12.30pm, the points were tallied up, then the Platinum, gold and siver awards are given out from 2.30 on. This was for a Concours with over 150 cars.

So everyone has a prize .... who DESERVE it.

The "formal" awards (Best in Show, etc) are judged by the chief judges from each class, after the awards are given on the field. This is where it got interesting for Howard and I.

The ONLY cars eligible for major awards are Platinum winners

The major award judging IS SUBJECTIVE

The criteria are Rarity, Historical significance, Design and engineering.

At the 2004 event there were 19 Classes and a Chief judge, Ed Gilbertson.
All 20 Judges took part, and there were 'votes' to delete cars from consideration.

Obviously this event was HUGE compared to any Australian event, however I could see how there may be 3 teams of judges at a large Concours in Oz, with a Chief judge.

As many would know at the 2004 Australian Rally Galwey's 355 was 1 point better than Ken Bromley's 330 GT, consequently Tony Galwey won the best overall.

Under the FC America system both would be Platinum award winners, along with Kate Robey's 246 and Warwick's 550, I would say. How would the judging go
using the USA system??

Eye pokes, gouges are welcome

#57579
1988 - National FTD - Maranello Trophy
1995 - Ron Davis Trophy
2000 - Best In Concours - Lance Dixon Trophy

 

Nope...you're wrong. Not a ripple.

 

Hello Phil

That sounds like an interesting alternative. Having seen the Monterey/Pebble Beach shows this year, I feel sorry for the judges having to split the difference between all those various amazing and immaculate motorcars. Having a Silver/Gold/Platinum level of award may be a better option as more people go home happy as well...

 

Great shots Ding!

No Azzuro 308's at the Concorso?

JM

PS Call me - I have something for you

 

Thanks, I did take a couple of your car from Sunday but they didn''t turn out all that well. Your car was placed fairly badly in terms of the sun and the shadows, but I still have them so I might post them when I get home.

The call will also have to wait until this afternoon as your number is at home somewhere.

 

Hi Phil,

thanks for your very detailed report on how things are done in the US system, most enlightening and interesting. I particularly like the idea of the platinum 95 point etc in each class. I am unsure about the merits of "allowing" a certain level of grime because "Ferraris are meant to be driven". Stone chips perhaps; but I don't think there is an excuse for a car not being cleaned correctly. I wonder how you would have viewed the "time warp" Dino at the WA concour?
As a long time participant in the Australian scene, I would be interested in being involved in any evolution of the system we use.

Cheers
Scott

 

The call has just been made, so onto the pics of your car on Sunday.....these are the only 2 I kept, since the others had either too many people in the shot or bad shadows.

Of course if you want some nice pics of your car, then just give me a call (or email) and we can organise a "photoshoot" in a nice location - like I did with Looney's car.
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I see you're getting forgetful JM, you need to put the model number on due to the Alzheimers

 

That's so I can recognise it in the supertmarket car park!

 

Gee I love my car - whoops, haven't I heard that somewhere before?

Thanks for that Jan - I'll take you up on that offer - keep 20 Nov free

JM

 

make up your own lines! i love your car too....but i can't stand the old codger who drives it.

 

Great, a Ferrari drive down to Mandurah this Sunday (with Pete, rizzo and 6-7 others) and then photographing your car 2 weeks later. My weekends are being occupied by Ferraris.....I have got better things to do you know.

 

told ya! http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=134862103#post134862103

 

yeah, they're common as muck those old things, you can easily get into the wrong car

looks better than when I saw it in Sadelaide, absolutely gorgeous , you obviosly don't drive it enough

 

Haha, since you seem to be a fortune teller whats next in my life?