430 Any Aftermarket Clutches Worth Looking At?

My two cents ..if F1 it is not worth looking beyond OEM ..but since you are a converted sample ...let's see what other like since the the characteristics of the specific clutch will not play a part as if it was F1

 

All converted cars with F1 fluid in clutch line (gearbox never dropped) rattle like that. I would ignore it and not spend thousands just to do the bearing/clutch, but wait until its worn out; but if I ever do it, I would use OEM Ferrari clutch and Hill bearing.

 

Mario

Is this because the original TO bearing is used to be energized in neutral vs now after conversion it is not

 

When I converted, I sent my clutch and flywheel to GTE. Paying for all new OEM or replacing the flywheel with only 11K miles on it seemed... silly.
They resurfaced flywheel and rebuilt clutch for probably ~1/4 cost of buying both new OEM. Turnaround time was also around 5 days from when I sent off to getting returned, and that was during the holidays.

Unfortunately, I have nothing to compare it to. Car was F1 prior, and I've not driven anyone else's car.

 

Yes, I think so. If you press the clutch just slightly to pressurize the line the rattling stops. It just happens in neutral; I guess the brake fluid version is slightly different constructed and it stays put or the brake line has enough pressure to keep it from bouncing around.

 

Oh ok ..it is the line that rattles .. thanks

 

Sounds like you dont like the answer

i can confirm with many cars aftermarket clutches dont seem to work as well

f430 who knows

 

Interesting thread. Can someone explain why there's a difference between an F1 and a 3-pedal clutch? The components are the same. My F1 360 is going in soon for a major and also a clutch replacement (last reading was 17% life left). My previous clutch replacement (at around 35k miles) was with OEM parts which is what the shop recommended. As I recall (and I may be mistaken), a Kevlar disc was an option that was definitely NOT recommended at the time.

I'm sure I'll go with OEM parts again but would like to understand why some folks are making a manual vs F1 distinction. Does it have something to do with clutch engagement being different between the F1 system & manual?

 

My understanding, there is NO physical difference when OEM F1 or Manual.
I think what is being explored here is that people tend to want to stay with OEM more so on F1 as those systems and the compound of the clutch etc. were all designed around eachother. So if you changed compounds or thickness etc. there is concern for the system not working as intended. Maybe it will slip less or more, or engage harsher or less harsh, mess with the position sensor… who knows.

But as a real manual your foot is doing all of that work, so does it really matter if it’s a newer age material or anything like that… maybe, maybe not.

I can admit I was looking for cost savings. And couldn’t see any downsides that made me want to spend at least $2-3k more for OEM. I did all the work and it really was an easy job, so I’m not worried if I have to replace it again. Maybe if you’re paying someone else and the job is already costing a ton, then another 2-3k more may not seem so bad.


I’ll update as I get more miles. For now I have maybe hit 100 miles. I would like to ride or drive someone else’s car to compare, not sure that will ever be possible.

 

I did my clutch last winter, so I'm considering sending my old clutch to GTE for a rebuild but I'm still leery. But I don't know, maybe it is in fact better than oem like a Hill TOB?

 

The only real thread on this forum related to trying a aftermarket clutch resulted in an engine failure. I don't think the readers here ever got a consensus on what was truly to blame but the ambiguity was enough to scare most of us off.

I will be going 100% oem with the proven HE TO bearing (or perhaps GTE rebuilt if enough people vouch for them)

 

The thread on the Velocity AP option is… frustrating. I agree, it was enough to scare me away. I will say that I did try to contact Velocity directly to ask some questions and poke around, when I did not get any contact back it was then an easy decision for me to not go that route.

 

Can't comment on aftermarket clutches. But my understanding is the only difference between the TO bearings is the seal as manual uses brake fluid and F1 uses the F1 oil. (which I think is the same as the power steering)
Also my manual 430 and virtually all the manual cars I've had have a gearbox rattle when idling in neutral. It goes away when the clutch is depressed. I was told it's synchro rattle and normal. A bad TO bearing will make noise when the clutch is depressed not the other way around.

 

My manual CS does not rattle at all when in neutral FWIW.

 

Because you dropped the gearbox and installed a manual oem bearing, no? You are not running F1 fluid through the clutch line, but brake fluid. I should hope so it's not rattling

 

Yes, I did it the full correct way. Sorry, I did not know that's why yours was rattling. I wonder what exactly causes that?

 

I think by design the F1 system keeps slight pressure in the line, keeping the TOB "tight". When you remove that pressure, it moves freely back and forth until the clutch is engaged. It seems to only do it in neutral, I never hear it when in gear; must be the position of the clutch. But, that being said, we have many manual conversions done like this for years, and it seems not to develop a problem in the long run.

Talking to @LorenzoR who has done 2 conversions on his own, both behaved the same and did not experience a change in behavior (better or worse) after many 10s of thousands of miles.

 

I think I should contribute here because I have experience with GTE clutches running back to back with Valeo. This applies only to F1 equipped cars as I have no experience with OEM gated manuals or conversions.

My overarching opinion is go OEM/Valeo with an asterisk.

If you have a front engine Ferrari (599/612) equipped with an F1, then I'd steer clear of rebuilds. I have not heard of any installs on these cars (including those done at GTE) which have not experienced issues. I had the common problems on my Maserati F1, which shares that architecture (F1 setup, piston accumulator, etc.). The gear engagement starts off rough, intermittent or no reverse, all of which slowly clear up after the lengthy break-in period. Try pushing your car out of parking spots for the first 2K miles! Also, you may get more shudder on start than with the Valeo, which can cause rotation of the bell housing bearing which will then need to be scored and locktited, requiring a full teardown to get rid of the squeal. I'm not only speaking from personal experience here - I've talked people off the ledge after having experienced the SAME problems. After driving for a while, and getting used to the feel, it did quite well. It eventually developed a release bearing leak (unrelated problem) so I threw in an OEM clutch at that point since I was in there.

If I wasn't using the car as a daily driver, the problems would have been a nightmare. I tried to convince YouTuber Samcrac of same with no response when he used the rebuilds in his 612 and 360. I did notice, however, that those cars are now dormant in his yard with grass growing up to the door handles.

On the mid engine cars, the rebuilds and the kevlar units seem to work better. Still, I prefer the OEM. My current 360 is running a kevlar clutch which WAS IMPOSSIBLE to drive with the early TCU. Once I upgraded to a CS TCU and programmed it with the generous help of Dominick, it works great. The good thing is the kevlar clutches last a long time and have NO SMELL ever, even when overheated (and they will throw an overheat beep if you use them with an early TCU).

On the 360 and the Maserati, the rebuilds act very similar. They are not as forgiving as the OEM units and the performance is not as consistent. For example, I've noticed that some days are "hard" shift days and some aren't. Temperature, etc., all effects it. Also, the grip at high RPM shifts varies a bit too, and can be made more consistent in RPM range by adjusting the PIS. If I want mine to shift hard near redline, then I need to open up the PIS by about .5mm but it will slip more in the mid rev range. If I want it to be a harder shift at 5-6K, then I tighten up the PIS but I will get a delay at redline. Using the OEM units, I don't get this issue, or at least it's not nearly as noticeable.

So the asterisk is this: Both have costs and benefits. If you're an enthusiast (like me) who likes to experiment and play around with the F1s, then it's fine, assuming there's a cost benefit. If you're looking for consistent performance like Ferrari intended, go OEM. When I bought my car over a year ago, I was told it needed a new clutch (that's how bad it was slipping with the standard TCU married to a kevlar clutch lol), and Scuderia had the entire Valeo clutch pack and F1 sensor and spigot bearing on sale for $1999.00! At that price I wouldn't even look a rebuild. It didn't include the release bearing but I'd go HE anyway.

That brings me to my next piece of advice - SHOP AROUND for prices. Scuderia, Ricambi, Ferrparts, even some dealers like Wide World Ferrari. I've gotten good deals on parts at all 3 but NEVER at the same time.

 

I meant all 4 lol. Apparently I know how to work on Ferraris but I don't know how to count.

 

I happen to have a used clutch I'd sell for $500 lol