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Any preventative items I should replace *just in case*? (2003 360 F1)

Discussion in '360/430' started by Albert Penello, Aug 14, 2019 at 12:42 PM.

  1. Albert Penello

    Jul 21, 2019
    20
    Woodinviille, WA
    Full Name:
    Albert J Penello, Jr.
    Doing a lot of reading on my new (to me) 2003 360. Been reading up on maintenance and issues that crop up with these cars, and was wondering if there are any known "preventative" items that I should consider replacing?

    For instance, it sounds like the factory 30amp F1 relay has an upgraded 40amp version, and it sounds like that's something worth swapping out since they are easy to get to and if they fail you can damage your F1 pump (looks like Recambi has an 155437A upgraded part that's not very expensive).

    Also seems like the F1 pump itself can be replaced with an Alfa unit that doesn't require draining the system. Watched a video and that seems pretty straightforward.

    Anything else I should be looking at along these lines - known failure points that could be addressed early?

    Thanks!
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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  3. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Just enjoy it and drive it once a week. You’ll be surprised how reliable it is. Only thing I’d get is an extra $30 brake switch. If it suddenly doesn’t go into gear replace this on the side of the road. Might fix it. That and. Peep into the coolant tank once in a while to check for an oil film. Otherwise just enjoy it...
     
  4. mello

    mello F1 Rookie
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    Steve
    What's the mileage and what's done already by you and the OPs?
     
  5. Albert Penello

    Jul 21, 2019
    20
    Woodinviille, WA
    Full Name:
    Albert J Penello, Jr.
    Mileage is 25K.

    The car had a PPI and just had the full service done at Calabasas Luxury Cars. So all the fluids were done, as were the front belts. Timing belt done 2 years ago. The only items that came up on the PPI were lower ball joints, and the clutch was at 23%. So I had upper and lower ball joints replaced, clutch replaced, and the full service as well as the transmission mount.

    So I think all services are up to date. I may be getting some of the service history but the previous owner was being difficult about that.

    Really I'm having no problems with the car so far. I installed a battery tender behind the drivers seat. Now mostly I'm just thinking of things that may pop up in the future that I can get in front of - things like the F1 relay which seem like an inexpensive part to change "just in case".
     
  6. mello

    mello F1 Rookie
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    Jul 12, 2013
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    More common issues:
    . Intake plenum runner gaskets, they leak and causes misfiring
    . Ignition coils, will weaken and causes misfiring
    . Rollover valves, gasket tend to leak, gas smell, upgraded version available
    . Fuel pumps, top of pump plastic tends to crack, gas smell and spewing fuel. Upgraded version available

    Less common issues:
    . F1 pump relay, 30 amp version sticks, causing F1 pump to run continuously and burn out
    . F1 hydraulic pump, burn out due to sticky F1 relay
    . Alternator B+ cable, on the back of the alternator - corrosion
    . Heat exchanger, mostly caused by lack of changing out the coolant
    . Battery, most owner change it out every two to three years
    . CAT temperature ECUs, an upgraded version is available
    . MAF
    . O2 sensors
    . Spark plugs, an upgraded version is available
    . Oil pressure sensor, put a silicon sock on the new one if replacing
    . Fuel injectors, clog due to car not being driven

    To have as spare in the car and know how to change them out on the road:
    . Brake switch, bad switch will prevent you from shifting gears
    . Brake light bulbs, a bad bulb will give you F1 issues
    . F1 pump relay, bad relay will not energize F1 pump
    . Fuses, if you don't have the tool kit

    What you need to learn:
    . Do not overfill F1 reservoir
    . Do not overfill motor oil

    You can do a search to get more specific info. I'm sure other owners will chime in.
     
  7. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 25, 2005
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    John Zornes
    I would add to Steve's comment that the dipstick on the F1 is wrong and the motor oil is checked hot and running.
     
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  8. Albert Penello

    Jul 21, 2019
    20
    Woodinviille, WA
    Full Name:
    Albert J Penello, Jr.
    #8 Albert Penello, Aug 14, 2019 at 5:24 PM
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 5:31 PM
    Can you explain this in more detail? Aldous said the system was changed but are all 360's the car-running check? Is there a correct dipstick for the F1?
     
  9. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Aug 25, 2005
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    Motor oil is checked warm and idling. You sit the cap/dipstick on top and then get a reading. That is the only correct way to check motor oil in a 360. That never changed so all cars are the same.

    The F1 dipstick is just wrong and there is no 'right' one. The spec is a specific distance below the top of the reservoir; I forgot the exact distance but it is on here many times if you search. I haven't done it in a while so I could have this wrong but it is checked warm and some minutes after the pump primes, aka it has time to drain back into the reservoir. Ferrari makes, and most pros have or have made, this tool that looks like a bent straw that allows them to siphon off to the correct level. All of this is covered in a service bulleting and will be in the same threads that tell the correct distance from the top.
     
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  10. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
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    I've done a tonne of faulty immobilizer deletes this year and the problems are much more common than people perhaps realize. Bosch immobilizer was designed to last around 10 to 15 years so many internal components way beyond their operating lifespan. Just like Bosch alarm siren was a built in battery which is also destined to fail at some point if not already.

    Here's some issues seen as indirect consequences of immobilizers starting to go bad and the knock on consequences..

    Manifests itself as all kind of other faults such as;

    1. Poor battery life off the tender
    2. Random cold and warm starting issues
    3. Weird issues with central locking randomly locking and unlocking and/or failure of door lock solenoids more than once.
    4. Weird issues with random hazard light blinking often attributed incorrectly to indicator relay.
    5. Wiping out of dashboard settings accompanied with X on dashboard due to voltage spikes coming from immobilizer board.
    6. Failure of one or more of the paired Engine Ignition ecus resulting in a dealer quoting over $6000 to replace both engine ecus with new items only for them to fail again a short time later. Again voltage spikes killing them.
    7. Impossible to get rid of ' Uneven idle' due to voltage regulations of the throttle bodies PWM signal being damaged internally within one of the engine ecus by voltage spikes.
    8. Premature failure of the alternator and battery due to constant voltage drainage.

    The list goes on...

    As part of the immobilizer delete I can also remove the following as part of the reflash in countries which permit it such as ;

    1. Catalytic efficiency CELs, so you don't get them if sports cats fitted, ever.
    2. Catalytic temperature delete, so you can unplug your cat ecus and engine ecus simply ignore them. Also disables slow down monitoring so you don't have to have engine temp thermistors plugged in.
    3. Secondary o2 sensors delete, they are ignored so can be removed. They are only used on 360 for cat efficiency monitoring.

    Search for Ferrari Swiss Army Knife thread for more information...
     
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  11. Albert Penello

    Jul 21, 2019
    20
    Woodinviille, WA
    Full Name:
    Albert J Penello, Jr.
  12. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    360trev
  13. Neil A

    Neil A Rookie

    Oct 11, 2011
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    Edinburgh, UK
    Trev

    May be a stupid question but with the imob delete does the remote central locking still work or is this controlled through the same system ?
    I guess its a case of delete the old system then install a modern Toad/Clifford system to keep the insurance happy.
     
  14. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
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    Not a stupid question at all.

    Model Differences
    Firstly it depends on if its a F430 or a 360. On the later F430's the immobilizer is isolated into a single board so its only purpose is immobilize, this means your central locking and alarm both operate as normal even after an immobilizer delete.

    On the earlier models like the 360 the immobilizer is indeed shared on the same board as the remote fob receiver for door lock/unlock functions and alarm deactivation signals. On the 360 there are in fact 2 different hardware revisions. Really early '99 cars have an immobilizer which was actually higher quality and better built (but still failure prone). Later cars had to settle for a cost down unit, the first version was designed and produced by Bosch 25 years ago so very much a dinosaur. Depending on which board revision you have there are different considerations.

    Whats actually going on?
    In summary there are soldered on mechanical relays which begin to open/close on their own, guessing because the voltage regulation components fail on the board which means that voltage spikes are triggering the opening and closing of the relays at random times not related to the programming. In some circumstances enough power gets through to actually energize the relays and in other times not enough but still enough to consume battery voltage. Sometimes its doing it at very high speeds enough to burn out things like door locks as they overheat with continuous opening/closing. The net result is even replacing relays isn't a solution as some people have suggested. To prevent big voltage spikes leaving the unit via the relays at regular intervals you can cut the tracks to 1 or more of the 4 relays on the pcb but its living on borrowed time. I've had people try this and eventually the board fails further and they eventually decide to totally remove it completely after still having weird issues like hazards blinking at random intervals or spikes going on to erase the dashboard eeprom!

    Complete Removal
    Even with the immobilizer boxes (both of them) completely removed the key in the door lock still functions as a door lock/unlock function for BOTH passenger and drivers doors since in fact there is a separate door/windows ecu in the foot well area of the car.

    Security of original system in 2019
    I would absolutely advise to get an inexpensive insurance approved immobilizer fitted these days. The aftermarket route is dramatically less costly but more than this it offers much better security and its different for every installation, something by its very nature a factory fitted system cannot be. Therefore this route will be significantly more secure than the factory system which has been compromised. Hackers can do it via wireless means now which is to say with specialist kit they don't even need your original remotes to get in and start engine. Within a few minutes of wireless brute force attacks of the vehicle's immobilizer they can find the unlock codes required to deactivate it as if they had the original fobs. The encryption algorithm used was proprietary and when it eventually analyzed it was found to have serious weaknesses. So in summary having the fobs and immobilizer fitted actually makes it considerably easier for you vehicle to be stolen than without it and when you've had a 3rd party insurance approved circuit immobilizer fitted.

    It varies between countries but in the UK they are categorized as;
    Thatcham Category 1 – combined alarm and immobilizer
    Thatcham Category 2 – electronic immobilizer
    Thatcham Category 2/1 – alarm upgrade
    Thatcham Category 3 – mechanical immobilizer
    Thatcham Category 4 – wheel locking devices
    Thatcham Category S5 – post-theft tracking and recovery systems
    Thatcham Category S7 – stolen vehicle location
    Q class systems – non-categorized aftermarket systems


    --
    I would tend to fit an S5+/S7 system (tracker) and a Category 2 immobilizer (multi circuit immobilizer, typically starter and fuel pump). You can ofcourse go for a Cat 1 in place of the cat 2, that would entirely replace immobilizer and alarm allowing you to rip out in its entirety the old antiquated system.

    I can provide details on how to install door lock/unlock functions back to a Cat 1 system to a fitter as I know the precise pins which perform the door lock/unlock. I'm also working on a solution which does smart wireless keyless entry controlled via your phone so makes it ultra modern.

    Sorry if my response was a little long, hopefully informative.
     
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