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Anyone actually had a timing belt fail

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by LetsJet, Jun 29, 2004.

  1. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    May 24, 2004
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    Has anyone actually had a timing belt fail? There has been a great deal of discussion as to the replacement intervals of the timing belts. I thought it would be a good idea to see if anyone actually had trouble with them. Complete failure or not, I'm interested in reading your story.
     
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  3. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
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    Sep 5, 2001
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    I have had no issues but in the couple years I have been on here we have maybe had 1 or 2 direct stories (if that many) and a few friend of a friend has this or that problem stories
     
  4. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    I have seen two posts on this site to the effect that one mechanic has seen a 308 with a broken belt and someone else mentioned a friend of a friend that had one but I have yet to see a post of first hand experience.

    I'm guessing that if and when it does happen to somebody they aren't going to say anything about it out of embarrassment possibly or because it could compromise the resale of the car with a belt failure in it's history.

    I have also read here that the 'failure' more often is a belt jumping teeth or stripped teeth due to looseness or a seized idler bearing.
     
  5. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    This thread was done just a couple months ago....you can probably find it in the archives.
     
  6. 911Fan

    911Fan Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2004
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    Yes. But it was on another Fiat product -- a 124 Sports Coupe!
     
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  8. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    I had the belt fail on a 1992 Honda Accord LX. I was 10 miles outside of Newport Tennesee, and found myself walking along Interstate-40.

    The car had just rolled 90K miles -- so I was stunned the belt would fail. Stupid me, I spent nearly $3,000 to have everything put back together, then sold the car for $4500.

    -Daniel
     
  9. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    I had a belt fail on a 1996 300zx TT last year only after around 2000, it was fitted by a specialist 300zx dealer in the uk. I did not see the belt makers pick up the bill....F**K no. The belts on these cars can do 70,000, but mine didnt, the spwcialist told me he has only ever had two break at such low mileage. Anyways thats gone to the big scrapper in the sky.
     
  10. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    There was an 84 3x8 with orginal belts here in Ontario that Tom did the first service on.Car was orginal owner just sold with 30k. My TR goes through the standard 7 yr replacement and been fine. More misfortune than anything else.
     
  11. smsmd

    smsmd Karting

    Nov 12, 2003
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    Steven Scates MD
    I had a Honda prelude with 100K in which the belt broke on a freeway exit. The car just died and I gave it away. Couldn't even donate it.

    steve
     
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  13. redhead

    redhead F1 Rookie
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    5 years around Ferrari's and working with them, have seen 6 cars in our shop myself. Its called PREVENTIVE maintenance.
     
  14. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Sep 25, 2002
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    Jim G (Napolis) had it happen to his TR back in his early years. If I recall it happened at around 7,000 miles, and I assume within in 2 years of buying the car, judging from the fact that he used the car as his daily, rain, even snow, or shine.
     
  15. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie
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    Some of these timing belt stories sound like Bigfoot stuff to me although I had a timing belt fail on a 84’ Porsche 944 just a little past the maintenance interval.

    Does anyone know of a late model Ferrari belt failure? (355,360,550.etc.)

    When did it fail? How many miles? Years old?
     
  16. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    I have seen a 348 break a belt. Not a pretty sight let me tell you. The belt was an original and broke because of lack or maintance. Did almost 20k damge to the engine. Bent all valves and crushed to piston ring lands and required 3 cylinder sleves to be replaced. Big bucks. So yes it does happen. But usually there is a direct reason as to why it happends. I have never seem a t-belt fail for know reason found.
     
  17. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    May 24, 2004
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    I thought this thread had died and I had gotten my answer (No). The internet is a great resource to poll people and learn something about this issue. Further, I'd like to know how many yrs / miles on your belts. With all these Fcar owners we should be able to create some solid info.
     
  18. yesod

    yesod Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Wasn't there a guy that had one break on a testarossa that used to post here? I think it happened when the car was still under warranty. I had one break on my Porsche 944 turbo. Kind of ironic that I was about two weeks from getting the thing changed.
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I have been working on Ferrari's professionally since 79 and have seen many belt failures for several reasons. Of the ones that were not linked to acts of human intervention they were all on cars where either, A, factory maintenance schedules were not adhered to or, B, the cars were driven very hard and an increased maintenance schedule was not adopted. I have seen 355's have belt failures with factory installed belts fail within the 5 Yr, 30K period for reason "B". I have also removed belts during routine servicing that had holes punched right through them from debris getting between the belt and pulley (still working fine). And we have all seen them go for MANY years beyond the service interval. I have a 90 TR at home and it gets belts every 4 years. It's up to you or as Dirty Harry said "Do you feel lucky". For what it's worth I was sorry when Ferrari went from chains to belts, I'm tired of changing them, I wish they would change back.
     
  20. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    May 24, 2004
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    Thanks RD for the info,

    Are you saying that chains wouldn't fail? I would have thought chains would be worse. If chains are better why hasn't someone come up with an aftermarket kit?

    - E
     
  21. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    I've seen chains last longer than the engine itself on a number of cars.

    The after market kit would cost more than adhering to the maintenance schedule is my guess.
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Chains can fail (very uncommon) and they do wear out, but mileage is the only consideration, not age. The vast majority of belts I change are for age and have not gone anywhere near 30K miles. In case you haven't noticed many car companies are extending service intervals to previously unheard of intervals, and they are doing it with chains. When was the last time you heard of a Chevy 350 blowing up from a chain failure? And if you think a high performance motor needs belts look at an F50.
     
  23. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Almost goes back to basic engine design...the chains are internal to a housing sharing lubrication with the crank on older Ferraris, IIRC

    The belts run outside of the block in free air, without lubrication obviously..

    Two different schools of thought, entirely..
     
  24. Fiat Dino 206

    Fiat Dino 206 Karting

    Apr 19, 2004
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    Ah, for the good-old-days when men didn't wear loafers and cams were driven by chains!

    Those good-old-days when tune-up and valve lash adjustments were recommended at 10,000 km (6,000miles)

    Those good-old-days when timing chains would stretch and sometimes wear a hole in the timing case.

    The fibre belts were, I believe, first developed for use on high performance engines and are now used on many, if not most engines.

    The main reason is that once the belt is properly installed, there is no need to adjust the system until the belt is due for changing based on the design and use of the engine. The fibre belt does not stretch when used within its design limits. The fibre belt allows the cam timing to remain constant throughout the life of the belt; thereby, allowing the engine to maintain peak performance throughout the life of the belt. A properly installed fibre belt allows for greater contact surface on the drive gears, thereby, extending the life of the drive gear.

    The four most useful innovations for automobiles in the past 50 years when properly maintained are, in my opinion:

    1. efficient electronic ignition
    2. efficient fuel injection
    3. cup and shim valve lash adjustment
    4. fibre timing belts

    All four of the innovations reduce the maintenance cost of the environments in which they exist when compared to the older systems that they replaced.

    It is actually less expensive to replace the fibre belts at 30,000 miles than to have to do tune-ups at 6,000 mile intervals.

    Best wishes
     
  25. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    You need a history lesson. Cup and shim valve lash adjustment is far more than 50 years old. There is a relatively new invention, it's called " Hydraulic Valves", works quite well, you ought to check it out sometime. And by the way many modern design motors have gone back to chains, just not the antiquated double roller variety. Modern technology is great, just not all of it. Don't embrace modern technolgy for it's own sake. It still needs to pass the smell test. Oh, by the way before you start touting 5 valve technology, they are gone too. Ferrari has gone back to 1920's technology, 4 valves.
     
  26. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Well I have seen a timing chain break on a Lambo Diablo..not pretty. We told the customer that it was nosiey and could go at anytime. Did he listen nope..he told me it'd been makeing that noise since be bought it. Sure enough a month later, he called "my engine quite while I was on the highway,made a funny nosie then stopped"..Well..you know the rest...
     
  27. Fiat Dino 206

    Fiat Dino 206 Karting

    Apr 19, 2004
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    True that cup and shim valve lash has been around for a while longer than 50 years, but this being a Ferrari site, I was refering to Ferrari's use of the technology ... Ferrari's first use in a road car please?

    I own a Chevrolet truck with hydralic lifters, they suck in my application as I have had the valve train rebuilt once and am having a "click" returning (130,000 miles) ... My brother just had a replacement engine due to failure of the valve system on his Chevrolet (126,000 miles) ... which road car does Ferrari use hydraulic valve lifters on?

    I own a Saturn that has chain drive for the cam ... no problems after 80,000 mile, however, I blew the chain some years ago on a Chrysler hemi and parted ways with a very expensive Capri engine due to the failure of timing chain. Guess that it is the application and the time in space.

    Best wishes
     
  28. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    I believe it's the 355 onwards.
     

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