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Anyone familiar with the 208 turbo?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by GrigioGuy, Feb 29, 2004.

  1. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Nov 26, 2001
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    Dindu Nuffin
    I am highly interested in how they managed the turbo with the CIS system. I haven't found any technical docs for the car on the web. Anyone know of any defnitive sources, or better yet own one and be willing to answer some questions?

    Thanks
     
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  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    According to the 239/82 OM from the Owner's site there isn't any interaction/control. It just says that the turbocharger pressurizes the intake manifold (upstream of the FD), but from there the K-Jet just seems to work in the normal way (i.e., airflow thru the FD deflecting the metering plate which in turn controls the amount of fuel added).

    The turbo itself only has two other control gizmos: 1) a waste gate to give constant boost above 3500 RPM, and 2) an (intake) "air recirculation valve" to vent/unpressurize the intact track under closed-throttle deceleration or light throttle constant cruise to keep the turbo's RPM up under those conditions.
     
  4. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Thanks for looking at that for me. I still can't get my logon info for the owners' site.

    According to what you posted, this means that the stock K-jet on the 328 should have enough fuel capacity to handle a low-boost turbo install. Which in turn means that a conversion to a EMS and EFI system isn't necessary yet. Excellent.
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    No problem Tillman -- but you lost me a little in how you concluded from that that there's enough extra fuel delivery margin in the stock K-Jet setup to boost your 328. The 208 turbo's max boost is listed at 8.5 psi so if you do a "displacement x intake pressure" estimate a 208 operating at 1.6 atmospheres is identical to your 3.2 operating normally-aspirated at 1 atmosphere (i.e., both would require the same amount of fuel -- ergo, their having quasi-identical K-Jet injection set-ups seems right).
    I do recall some prior discussion occurred at the old site regarding the F K/KE-Jet injector size and the maximum fuel delivery capacity (but can't recall exactly who -- maybe Ric Rainbolt or Rob S./rexrcr).
     
  6. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    The later GTB/S Turbo Intercooler cars ran higher boost (1.05 bar or 14.5psi) with the aid of an intercooler (and revised engine management via Microplex) for more performance. Same set-up with the wastegate and dump valve though (obviously altered for the higher pressures).

    I too have had problems logging into the Owner's site this evening...
     
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  8. harmitc

    harmitc Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Bernard R
    I owned a GTB Turbo for about 18months, great car. Happy to answer any further questions.
     
  9. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Steve,

    Like Peter mentioned, I was really thinking more about the later model which ran at significantly higher boost levels than the original 208 turbo. I'm still trying to find an equivalency program to verify what boost levels on a 3.2 would be similar to the needs of the GTS turbo in terms of fuel flow. You'd have to think that there was some margin available in the K-jet, the question is whether it's enough. I'll look for those earlier conversations today.

    Benard, I'll send you a PM later today. Thanks for the assistance.
     
  10. wimeldo

    wimeldo Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
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    Hello Tillman,
    I am owner of a 1987 GTS Turbo, I have the manual and some additional information; tell me exactly that you want to know, and I will try to help you.
    Greetings.

    Alfredo.
     
  11. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 Veteran
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    harmitc and wimeldo,

    I've always liked the 208 Turbo series. As I've never seen the car, and pictures I've seen do not show the rear deck, I was wondering if you could post a picture showing the venting treatment on the rear deck.

    Barry
     
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  13. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Maybe a very low boost turbo, I seriously doubt there is even an extra 20% of metering capacity in it. The 208 and GTS/B turbos had about the same HP as a 308/328, so all you know is that it will work up to 260hp and maybe there is something left on top. After the metering plate will peg and the system will stop responding to higher flows, causing a lean condition. You could increase the stiffness of the spring on the air metering plate, but then you will also need to recalibrate the fuel metering valve to match. You could do some searching, I know the porsche guys have been dealing with this problem and I believe there are places that can recalibrate the unit for you. But when it is all said and done, I would be surprise if you saved much or any money, it probably will never run as well or make the hp it would if you just bit thew bullit and did the EFI conversion.
     
  14. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    I have these two pictures but know nothing more about it than they are both original 2.0 turbo engines, one has an intercooler and would be the later 328 style GTS turbo engine.
     
  15. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior

    Nov 27, 2003
    434
    Just a note - this is very similar to how the Porsche 930 Turbos ran - complete with CIS...

    -Wayne
     
  16. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Excellent!

    Do you have them in a higher res? If so, would you mind emailing them to 66639@Ferrari328.com?

    Gracias
     
  17. wimeldo

    wimeldo Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
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    Hello Barry,
    In the following link, you can see good photos of a GTS Turbo.


    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/18/107.html?978817916

    Greetings

    Alfredo.
     
  18. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 Veteran
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    Alfredo,

    Thank you for posting that link. I'm familiar with the exhaust valance and now I know what the rear deck treatment looks like. All this and the NACA ducts make this a very handsome car.

    Regards,
    Barry
     
  19. F328 BobD

    F328 BobD Formula 3

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  20. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    Sorry no, I just remember they came from an old cd rom I have called "Fabulous Ferrari" and all those pics were this size.
     
  21. miked

    miked Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2001
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    Mike Dawson
    Audi turbos from the '80's have the same set-up except the intercooler is between the turbo and the throttle plate. Path is: air cleaner, metering plate (CIS fuel dist.),turbo, intercooler, throttle plate, intake manifold. All the 5 cyl. 10 valve turbo Audis (ur-Quattro, 5000 Turbo, 5000 Turbo Quattro and 200) used the K- Jetronic CIS system with a KKK turbo and a wastegate. I have put a few hundred thousand miles on turbo Audis and have found them bullet proof.

    Audi uses the wastegate to control the boost pressure, ie. the WG opens to allow the exhaust gases to by-pass the turbo when the manifold pressure reaches a certain level. The ur-Quattro uses a simple hose from the intake manifold to the lower side of the WG diaphragm. When the boost level pushes on the diaphragm enough to overcome the spring on the oppisite side, the WG valve opens. The 5000/200 uses a computer controlled frequency valve to control pressure in the opposing upper chamber of the WG. (assisting the spring) for a more precise control. A pretty basic system.
     

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