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Anyone in favor of a 'success ballast'?

Discussion in 'F1' started by Fast_ian, Jul 26, 2014.

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Anyone in favor of a 'success ballast'?

  1. Yes. Would improve the show!

  2. No. Ludicrous idea. I'd be done with them!

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #26 wax, Jul 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!

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  3. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

    Jul 11, 2005
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    Toe Knee
    There should be a 3rd option. It would improve the show with the current rules but not in favour :(
     
  4. Isobel

    Isobel F1 Veteran
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    Jun 30, 2007
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    Is, Izzy for Australians
    Mmmm, THAT does give one evil thoughts though.....

    How to penalize a winning team the following race, HMMMMMMM....;)

    1) All communications will be monitored by other teams...or
    2) No communications - pit board only
    2) Four less trailers ...OMG
    3) Mandatory fresh transmission.... manual with gated shift ...;)
    4) Rain tires for a race stint of any duration. (This might not be a hindrance given the circumstances, however I like my odds, especially at dishdash based circuits (perhaps one carrying double points)
    5) One air spanner mia
    6) Double sized mirrors (for safety! ) ;)
    7) Last choice of pits and no chairs allowed during the race (including the pit wall - and no awning either).
    8) Mandatory team vacation Thursday (Wednesday for Monaco ;)


    I have more.

    Broom please my pretties...ehhhahahahahaha ;)
     
  5. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Toe Knee
    I hope Bernie/teams doesn't read this forum :eek:
     
  6. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Why don't they have grid positions decided by drivers properly, each gets a standard 458 speciale, and qualy takes place in them. No mods, same tyre compounds, fuel levels, everything, prepared by the FIA not the teams, the best driver of each circuit will then be quickest, and every team then has a chance of being on pole. No reason why that wouldn't be acceptable these days, if we are going for a total BS manufactured formula (mind you, they will be terrified that the 458's will sound like proper racing cars, and upset the crowd when the next day, The sound of engines is replaced by the sound of Mr Hoovers latest batch of cleaning appliances)

    I'm joking of course, but really, ballast, Eco-friendly engines, built in component longevity, penalty points for speeding (for racing drivers), where does the BS end already

    f1 was a great sport through the 80's to the 00's, and then the last 8 years has gotten progressively less motor sport, and more BS, time to reset the clocks or the sport will die
     
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  8. redduke

    redduke Karting

    Apr 19, 2011
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    Tim
    Fixing F1 is simple.

    Remove fuel restrictions.

    Having watched Alonso going flat out through Cops corner at the Silverstone circuit in free practice I've seen what these cars are truly capable of - simply ASTONISHING!

    In "fuel saving mode" throughout the race - simply BORING!
     
  9. wmcot

    wmcot Rookie

    Jan 26, 2008
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    Bill
    No. It is just another artificial means of improving "the show."

    I say, get rid of DRS, self-destructing tires, allow pitstops for fuel (if a team wants it), wider cars, shorter cars, get rid of fuel limits and fuel flow limits, and cost limits, bring back the 3 litre engines of V8, V10, V12, straight 4 or whatever, allow 1.5 litre turbos but limit the boost, wider wings with limited elements, allow ABS braking, make hybrid engines optional (up to the teams). Limit or ban aero appendages so we don't go back to the 2000's but give the designers freedom to create.

    Let F1 be the pinnacle of racing and the best team can win because they deserve it, not because they pushed the rules to the limit. Some years we will have a dominant team and some years we won't. It's always been that way.
     
  10. wmcot

    wmcot Rookie

    Jan 26, 2008
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    Bill
    I love it! A very good analogy. F1 is reverting to the dark ages while road cars are advancing to the point that they have more technology than an F1 car.
     
  11. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    The Viz is the master! ;)

    If this nonsense goes forward they won't be reverting anywhere, but rather taking a step too far - into the abyss IMO.

    And road cars have had much more advanced technology than F1 cars for years - from a technical standpoint, things like VVT and dual clutches are banned. From a driving standpoint all driver aids, traction control, ABS and all the other 'safety' gizmos we take for granted on the road are outlawed. As they should be of course!

    These things are *incredibly* hard to drive anywhere near the limit. One thing this new formula has done is made them yet harder to control; We're seeing more sliding around now than in many years, and I think that's a good thing...... If they fix the damn sound & the silly noses we may even be in something of a golden age! (Ducks & covers! ;))

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
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  13. wmcot

    wmcot Rookie

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    Bill
    I'm not sure these things should be outlawed. F1 is supposed to be the most advanced form of racing, but a Honda Civic has more technology - maybe not in the power system, but in the "normal" functions of driving like braking, tires, etc. It's reached the point that NASCAR is more technical in some areas and I find that embarrassing for the sport.
     
  14. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    Advanced tech, in and of itself, is not the goal. f1 designers should be free to build the fastest cars possible.
     
  15. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    Ian Anderson
    I'm no Nascar expert by any means, but can't see that. They've only recently switched to injection after all! The majority of their stuff looks positively agricultural to me!

    F1 OTOH is actually once again pushing the envelope in terms of the power they're now getting from so little fuel. Brake by wire, the MGU's, both K & H, are all very much bleeding edge technology.

    They used to feature TC, ABS, auto shifting, auto launch etc. Rendered the jockeys little more the button pushers IMO. I for one was happy to see all those gizmos outlawed. It's the world *drivers* championship after all! I'm thoroughly enjoying watching them struggle with wheelspin & excess torque etc for the first time in a long time.....

    I guess I'd like to see them allowed a little more fuel so as to avoid any howls that they're on an economy run - although, we haven't seen anyone run out yet have we? But, I have no problem with the fuel flow rate restriction - restricting that avoids the nonsense we see at Le Mans where they're cruising around until they *need* more power and they simply turn up the wick - be it to attack or defend. Mind you, they've got to be careful or the powers that be will BOP them back again for the next race!..... No thanks!

    Many claim that "fixing F1 is easy"...... Throw away the rule book and let them at it. Problem is, & I'm certain of this, none of them, not Merc, Ferrari, or even Honda would choose to play.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  16. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    Ian Anderson
    Couldn't agree more.

    But, those cars must be within the rules of the *formula*..... It isn't, nor has it ever been, Formula Libre!

    We can 'argue' all day long that the rules are too restrictive - and 88 pages of technical regs would tend to support that argument - but the vast majority of those rules are simply ensuring the playing field is level and understood.

    I guarantee that saying, eg, "maximum capacity is 3 litres, NA, do whatever you want" will not make the racing any better! Costs would sky rocket, but the racing wouldn't be any better.....
    ;)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  17. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    He who governs least governs best.


    Let's not kid ourselves. These guys don't have the best interests of the sport as prime directive.
    Its about revenue and what they think will generate the most of it.
     
  18. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Ian Anderson
    Once again, agreed.

    But, I think we're coming full circle here.... Surely the goal of any pro sport is to maximize revenue? Be it the NFL, your no-hands-football, hockey, MLB or any of the others.

    They do that via increased 'exposure' of course - Be it the mighty TV god or more bums in seats, one could argue they'd be in breach of their responsibilities if they're not constantly trying to increase their sports revenue, surely?

    I think they all try and provide the best 'product' they can, because that typically increases their popularity and hence revenue.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  19. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Taken too far the tail wags the dog.


    In any case these bozos have shown that they...
    (If I finished that as intended I'd get a weeks vacation from Andrew)

    Let's just say that they've demonstrated little ability to make wise choices.
     
  20. nsxrebel

    nsxrebel Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,817
    I voted yes because even if they added ballasts, I wouldn't be done with F1 unlike some of you that keep saying the same thing every year that something changes.
     
  21. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
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    Do you guys remember when qualifying was one lap one car at a time? The winner from the last race was the last one on track, effectively favoring the more successful teams.
     
  22. wmcot

    wmcot Rookie

    Jan 26, 2008
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    Bill
    I think my complaint is that the FIA are trying to please everyone and accomplishing nothing very well.

    For example, we have tire-saving fuel-economy runs and then add KERS (or ERS) and DRS to improve the "racing." That seems to be quite a contradiction to me.
     
  23. modena2904

    modena2904 Formula Junior
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    I voted "yes", but at the same time, I would like to see the rules opened up a bit to allow for more freedom in both technical design and testing. I think this approach could work -- it would add interest, both from a technical perspective as well as on the track. Budgets would still be kept in check because the rewards ballast would create a disincentive for investing large sums in development.

    To sum up, I'm not a fan of the path that F1 is currently following, and I really think the sport is dying a slow death. Rewards ballast is as good an idea as any for trying to save it.

    I know I'm in the vast minority on this opinion, so please go easy on me...

    - Eric
     
  24. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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  25. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I hear you and don't totally disagree, however IMO I don't think F1 is dying a slow death.

    But I can't speak for all parts of the world...
     
  26. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    +1

    With apologies to Mark Twain, "the reports of F1's death have been greatly exaggerated."

    I've said it before; I've been hearing that "F1 is dying" pretty much ever since I've been following it, and that's nigh on 50 years.

    Let's look at the *facts*;
    - The grid is not only full, but there's queues of people lining up to join the party.
    - There's more venues wanting to host a race than slots available.

    We may not like "the details", and TV viewership may be down a little, but it remains one of the most successful sports there is. Attracting 10's of millions of viewers every race. 100's of millions in revenues and payouts.

    I suspect there's not a business on the planet that wouldn't appreciate where it's at, even right now......

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  27. modena2904

    modena2904 Formula Junior
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    I hope you guys are right. Maybe I'm just paying too much attention to the doom and gloom...

    I was a huge CART fan back in its heyday, and attended many races. At its peak, CART had it all -- top drivers, top equipment from multiple manufacturers, a great schedule -- it was perceived as a genuine alternative to F1, with nothing but upside. But it didn't take long for it to self-destruct through mismanagement.

    F1's situation is totally different, I get that. But the CART example shows what can happen.

    - Eric
     
  28. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
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    David Lind
    And now Indycar has the best racing on the planet, but it's a spec series with ugly-assed cars. (Literally; the front looks great but the butt end is huge & ungainly.) What happened? Well, the schism, but after that it's taken a path of gimmicks (mandatory tire changes, push to pass, etc), loss of tradition (Road America, Watkins Glen, Phoenix, Laguna Seca all gone from the schedule) and shrinking grids that F-1 is somewhat paralleling. Where's the French GP? Gone! Spa & Silverstone? Under annual siege. Costs? Way out-of-control. Grid size? Shrinking.

    PS: if an Indycar and a F-1 car had a baby with a F-1 nose & Indy butt, you would have the most hideous open wheel car ever built!
     

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