Are 3X8 Prices REALLY Going Up? Value vs Price

I like the red one!

 

I have both-- '70 911E and '79 308GTS so I am watching the market for both as I can't tinker with or drive them in London so will sell one or both (garages are very expensive to rent here and traffic not fun.) Having worked on both I can say that the engineering and build quality of the nine year older Porsche is better, the market less volatile, but I prefer the looks, sounds and driving experience of the 308 (my wife prefers the 911.) Whatever Hagerty says, the market for both seems to be down about 15-20% since I bought in 2015-16. I had forgotten to put the tea leaves in my crystal bowl-- ok, I lie, I only have a plastic bowl-- sold the crystal to buy F parts

 

Yeah, I hate those plastic bowls! I must have a really good 308 as I find the build quality to be the equal of any of my 911s. The interior is original and very nice, still wears a nice original paint job, the engine is a jewel-every bit the equal of the flat six,reliability has been the same and both cars have run multi day rallies through interesting roads, without issue. I don't find it much more difficult to work on than the 911 either. Interestingly, my wife loves her 911, yet says the Ferrari is her favorite car for us to take on vintage rally events-go figure. I won't even bring the vintage Corvette into the mix, as that's one of my favorite driving event cars!

 

Ferrari of Austin has an 83 Usa ,red/tan,fresh paint ,service,,,,,correct raised letter mags!!!!,,VIP those mags,,,,looks really nice ,$109k
Keith Humphreys showed me around and knows his Cars.
,FOA is a state of the art Ferrari Paradise,,,
the qv looks tiny in the huge rear show room full of 488
308 much harder to run than 488,
308 sounds as good w/tubi
they will get 100k,,,
La Ferrari,,FOA has one on the front floor,,,,NASA RedCar
the 308 would look cute on a trailer behind La Ferrari

 

Hagerty has updated their Valuation Curves to September 2018.

Short version analysis: Values are essentially flat across the 3x8 spectrum from last valuation (May 2018).

 

Today at cars and coffee we were discussing that a Boston area dealer has been getting inquiries for 308s. They been asking their customers if they are interested in selling. Magnum effect?

 

Good cars are still getting good prices...probably 65-80% of the 2015 high points.

 

As another data point: I've been getting a lot of calls lately as well asking about 308s. Cars that I've had for a while have all been sold in the last couple of months. Consequently, I'm starting to buy again for my inventory.

Are we at a bottom? Maybe. Who knows. All I can say is that from a dealer's perspective, someone who specializes in these cars, it certainly seems like demand is picking up.

 

It's interesting to get the perspective from a dealer's perspective. Thank you. Very interesting.

As someone who was shopping (and ultimately purchased) in late 2012/early 2013, I was amazed a how little "inventory" was on the market at the time. It was hard to find a nice car despite the lower prices of that period. Lowering an asking price did not seem to increase demand/sell-ability. It struck me that it is both difficult to buy and difficult to sell an antique exotic car.

Any thoughts as to why now, with relatively higher prices, that demand has increased? Have you seen this before with other cars?

My belief is that we are just entering the years when those hormone-fueled boys of yesteryear watching Magnum et al have now entered the age of their peak purchasing power and are now capable of buying a Ferrari just because they've always wanted one and to heck with the cost. The next 5 years will be interesting.

I am horribly bias (love is blind) but it seems to me that the 308 is iconic; "what a Ferrari is supposed to be" and probably the last from the old-school factory. That is, before the factory focused on incorporating modern efficiencies and standardization to the assembly-line. Even in the 308 series, I see elimination of the expensive masking needed to black paint the A and B pillars beginning in late 1983 as a cost saving measure.

 

the 308/328 Mondial, Testarossa F-40 are the end of Enzo Alive era. while Enzo era cars when he had direct control of the company are considered to have ended with the Daytona, the reality is that era ended with his death in 88. Fiat took control of the road car production in earnest in 74-75.... making huge investments in automation. however if you look at the factory in 1988 vs. the factory in 1998 - it's a huge difference in just 10 years. All 308-328, TR Mondial's F-40's were Hand built cars... in the very literal meaning compared to today. while bodies were tamped at Scaglietti, the cars were largely assembled by hand on a line in Maranello. engines were hand casted and finished in the "green giants" milling machines first installed by Fiat. I think this is what is responsible for the slow rise in 308 series cars. they are beautiful, small elegant sports cars that are the last of the old traditional Ferrari way of driving. you can see all the same elements in a 308 that were in a GTO or 250 or 330... its the same formula only refined over the years. the mostly changed with the 355.. I'd say the 348 was the last "traditional" Ferrari ... but it was a transition even then to more modern techniques.

Enzo Ferrari became Chairman of Ferrari in 75-76, and in 77 that is when Fiat started to show up on the cars... that denotes his "sponsorship payments" having been renegotiated ( Higher ) by Angelli... for which he stepped out of all administration of the factory other than as Chairman / Supervisor / advisor role.

 

People (Michael Sheenan in particular) draw a sharp line at the Fiat involvement in Ferrari. I am not sure why. If I am not mistaken, contemporary commentary of Fiat's involvement hailed it as a very positive thing to lift Ferrari's quality control from horrible to passable. Clearly, there was no abrupt watering down of the Ferrari soup; still lots of cool cars that were getting better made (… although I find it kinda weird that my electric mirror switch has the BMW roundel cast on the back). I don't think an outside observer could identify the point where Fiat suddenly became involved.

 

Average yes, but low mileage cars will.
I bought a 1977 GTB 2/3 yrs ago for 95k, sold it for 110k a year ago.
My latest purchase for what I believe to be a slightly nicer car with arguably a rarer color was just under 125k. Good card are hard to find.

Both cars had 19k miles.

 

The Ferrari market is divided into several groups - I personally count 5:

1. Serious wealthy collectors - these are former racers, and guys who collected older Ferraris from the 1950's to 1967-1972 ish... they are the guys who count Ferraris as always having 12 cyl, and road cars that are front engines. These guys have Serious $$$$ and can buy the best. This is where Sheehan likes to play.. and seemingly likes to put off on other later Ferrari's as "lesser cars". these guys know 7 figure cars well, have driven them and you see them at pebble and at the breakers in Jan. this is the world of Ralph Lauren, Foitek, Nick Mason, David Piper etc... serious collectors who know all the right people... its a small somewhat insulated / impenetrable world. 288 GTO, F-40's can get you in... as well as well known race cars or a 308 owned by Paul Newman or Villeneuve ....
2. Modern guys - they collect the latest cars - have 3-5 at any time and usually like to have them specked out with lots of carbon, ceramic this and that... and they pride themselves for being on "the List".... the history of the company really does not mater, they are not so much into the racing vs. connections and being with the best out there.... they may have been Lambo guys who have matured a bit. but the common denominator is Lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Very few know of or like 308 series cars... if they do, and they collect they will want one that is totally 100% restored and works brand new.. but will never drive it because its not fast or comfortable.
3. Racers - these guys only like the race cars. old or new they love racing and have either been in the Challenge series or Clienti ( they may be #1's .. here and there) but mostly are bitten by racing bad. they also like F-1 and follow the series and grew up with cars and racing and see racing a Ferrari s the way to go. they can be gentleman drivers or very competitive - IMSA - Challege etc... or Track day junkies...most of the cars are not concours and they do a lot of their own mods... pride is to be fast and do it in a Ferrari. if they have a 308 - its either a chopped up track car or perhaps as Huffaker race car or michelotto special... regardless its still all about racing.
4. Average Enthusiasts: these are the guys ( me included ) who are not Super wealthy... but have either saved - stretched to buy the Ferrari of their dreams. for some its just a car that says I made it, others who like Racing and the history want a part of it, and still others just like the speed and sexy shapes... they buy the swag here and there... and try to get to as many Ferrari club meets as possible. they usually only have 1 Ferrari at a time. - some trade up, others keep the one car they have for sentimental reasons, but usually they know about the history, and cars performance numbers and see Ferrari as the ultimate Car brand.... They also are largely forgotten by Modern Ferrari, don't get the invites to FNA or Ferrari SPA events, and usually have third party mechanics doing service.... lots of us here on F Chat. Many have started out with 308's - mondial's some into 360's or other middle priced cars. Some cant afford the car they have now... like Dino owners in the mid 90's.
5. These are the guys in and out of the Ferrari marque, they are not so much interested in the cars vs. cost and prestige... they will go for a Ferrari, then easily go to Porsche or Lotus or McLaren or a big Benz... usually don't know much about Racing other than "its the same engine in my car" ... and they usually would be surprised that Ferrari was owned by Fiat or Chrysler Fiat.. don't know who Pinninfarina or Enzo were... they just "like the car".... average ownership is about 12- 20 Months max. or first serious mechanical issue. 308's are not on their radar at all.

308 series is now getting old enough that the 1st group want the best out there... and or will start to restore good ones... group 4 the usual home for these cars are slowly getting priced out of the market.... groups 2-3&5 could care less. ( unless you have a 308 race car )

 

makes sense Tom

 

Yes. Tom's write-up perfectly makes sense. In a on Ferrari focused view. Now let's transfer it to Porsche. It would not explain, why folks pay crazy prizes for a mass produced, moderately powered sports beetle with unsexy engines.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

I fit firmly into spirot's "Average Enthusiast" category. One difference is that I do all my own work and look at it as part of the fun. I bought my GT4 20 years ago when 308 prices in general and GT4 prices in particular where relatively cheap. If they hadn't been so I would have never been able to afford one. Considering that I have no intention of selling (I could never afford a suitable replacement of any brand) and the fact that my son already has a spot in his garage ready and waiting, ownership as an "investment" has no meaning. For someone like me a steady increase in value actually works against me as increased insurance cost, worries about theft or accident damage and the lingering thought in the back of my mind that rectifying a major mechanical problem may well be out of reach of my wallet. It is a "driver", nowhere near concours although someday I will do a rotissurie restoration (my son is in the body shop bussiness) but it isn't something that I find to be a necessity.

All that considered, I can still drive my car and enjoy it often as compared to the "Serious wealthy collectors" who at best can drive their car from the transporter in the parking lot to the concours field. Then again they are more about "checkbook competition" and immpressing each other.

 

That’s awesome

 

Tommy, it's obvious that you are one of the most loyal 308 owners here so tell me...do you ever get the urge to sell your 308 and get one of the newer cars? A nice 360, 430, 458?

I adore my 308 and it has always been my dream car but I have to admit that after I drove an F430 on the track I have never been the same. I love the design of the 308 but I also like the 360's lines.

Just picking your brain here

 

It’s all based on History. The 356 gumunds and speedster -Roadsters et al are pretty rare and they Are the very beginning of the Porsche company when it was beating goliaths on the race course. And it was based on professor Porsche senior and the sons collaboration... all about rarity.


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