Are There Any Low Production Ferraris under $100k Left? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Are There Any Low Production Ferraris under $100k Left?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Shark01, Jan 10, 2018.

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  1. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    :D:D
     
  2. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    I was flapping my gums about the gt4 many years ago.
     
  3. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    umm the 575 they made just a hair over 2000 of them total and less than 600 made there way to the United States. Is that rare in your opinion? I just paid a tick over $100k for mine. Its the first Ferrari with a v12 and an F1 gearbox. The single disc clutches in the cars are considered the original F1 tech and are now outdated bc of dual clutches, another thing in the favor of the 575 as a long term investment. Again there is less than 600 of these in the US ever and then go look on wreckedexotics.com plenty have crashed. I dont know how many exist in the US right now but its probably not many. Only 1800 or so 575s came with the F1 system, 250 or so were manuals. Its imo the most classic, beautiful modern ferrari. Even the 599/F12 just dont do it for me. I could afford either one, but for me the 575 was a dream of mine when I was younger and its just so beautiful in person. When 458s and 430s are made in 15k-20k tranches the 575 is really a rare car, I've only run into 3 or 4 my entire life before I bought one. I love it dearly.
     
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  4. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, what Ferrari's do you like? And then go from there.

    If you can't find any hidden gems (another words a model that is generally not loved but you love it), you may have to wait a while longer for a model you like to drop in price. Like for example a $120k 599. That day will probably come but it might be a few years out.

    -F
     
  5. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I think that misses the point. The point is, don't look at these cars as financial, look at them as emotional. If you look at them in this lens then you won't have to write off a bad decision. However, if this is a merely a financial decision, then yeah, you better watch out about bad financial bets.

    Yeah, pretty much all Ferrari's that are "not loved" fit the latter description, that's what we're talking about. I'm thinking of: 330 GTC, Daytona, Dino, Boxer, GT4, 308, 328, etc. At one point all of these cars were "not loved" because the latest, greatest thing made them seem old in comparison.

    These days the Ferrari's that are "not loved" are 355, 360, FF, etc. Of course these are all fantastic cars. It's just they're in that place right now.

    -F
     
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  6. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
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    I would consider a 575 as low production in the modern scheme of things. For me however, I would choose a 550 (the more iconic Daytona re-birth) or a 599 (a much improved car IMO) over a 575 F1 car.......but I'm sure every 575 has no problem finding an owner.
     
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  7. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
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    Based on your comment, I went bumping around a couple of auto sites.....My recollection for a couple of years ago was that there were a few '07s with miles ranging from $130-$150k. Everything newer spiked to $200k+ pretty quickly....

    So what I found last night was the majority of '07s were $140k to $160k.....but that there was a big selection of newer cars sub-$200k. Really can't see good '07s trading for say $110k for quite awhile (assuming a decent economy).
     
  8. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Trying to time the depreciation curve in order to make money (or just break even) is not easy and it takes time to play out. First, you have to start with a model that is "not loved".

    These days that includes: 348, 355, 360, 1st gen. California, 1st gen FF, cars like that. So first you have to buy one of these cars and then see what happens.

    And none of those cars are limited editions or specials. The only LE models that are "not loved" and under $100k are the 348 SS and maybe the 355 Fiorano (I'm guessing that one is not under $100k, maybe a high mileage example if you can find one.)

    As an aside, above $100k the LE that is "not loved" is the 430 Scuderia. It's the middle child, "not loved". Of course the 430 S is an incredible car that will blow anyone's socks off. So is the F50, another Ferrari that is..."not loved". I love it though.

    So start with a car that is not loved. Ideally it's one that you "love". :)

    -F
     
  9. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

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    So you're married to guitars? Music is a cruel mistress (in my case I use harsher language....because I stink).
     
  10. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

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    Thanks, I would classify myself as a bargain hunter....for example, if I'm looking at newer cars for a DD, I will try to buy early model years (I always buy used). Even like for 430s, I would concentrate on the '05s.

    I don't see myself buying Concour condition (low mile) cars.
     
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  11. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Divorced, no kids, and retired. No woman has anything to say about anything I do, which is exactly how I like it. Had enough of women for multiple lifetimes.

    YMMV :)
     
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  12. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    You said low production under 3000, the 550 they made I want to say 3600? I know over 3000. The 575 they made just over 2000. The 550 does have a stick yes, but look at 575s with a stick there's one for sale now at ferrari palm beach for $399k. The 575 is upgraded in every way, yes it has an F1 system and vs a stick it may not give the experience you want but you must remember when new the F1 system cost ALOT more, it was a big upgrade at the time. If you are asking for low production number Ferraris bc of an investment then the 575 has to be up at the top in the price range you're looking for. So every Ferrari moving forward is going to not be a manual correct? For the moment that is what we're told. People under 30 today, most do not know how to use stick shifts correct? Ok so the whole generation moving forward basically is not going to know how to drive sticks but the F1 gearbox they will know how to drive and the one in the 575 is the FIRST such like system in a road going Ferrari V12. Think about that for a second when you think about what makes a car classic in the future: low production number, quirky F1 system that doesn't exist anymore, V12 Engine. The 599 and F12 are amazing machines with spectacular engines, but for me they leave something to be desired that the 550/575 do not. Like I said I could have bought either but the maranello bodystyle to me at least is just gorgeous and classic Ferrari when you look at something like a 275 gtb that is not in my budget. The 550/575 looks like its modern offspring while the 599/F12 do not.

    I laid out my case for your scenario which sounds like you're looking for a limited production Ferrari as a potential asset that would appreciate.
     
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  13. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

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    The further this thread goes, the closer I get to the Scuderia as the Ferrari that makes the best financial sense to me personally. Then the issue starts being that if one has $200k to throw at that, there is ALOT of choices in the junior supercar segment (458, 570S, Huracan, 650S, 12C Spider, Gallardo Performante) that are really appealing (outside the question of depreciation).
     
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  14. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't think you can go wrong with a 430 Scuderia from an investment standpoint. It is an event to drive it, though, so not for everyone. It would be massive fun at a track.
     
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  15. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

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    A quick search indicated 3,715 for the 550....some question whether that includes the 400-odd Barchettas. For me, the 575 is a "tweener". Having driven both 430s and Scuderias, I value the Superfast F1 transmission as the best single clutch ever offered in a production car, hence I would lean 599 for an auto box and a 550 for a manual.....just my opinion.

    Appearance wise, the 550/575 for me is more pretty, the 599 more aggressive....I like both.
     
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  16. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

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    The first time I drove a Scuderia, I also drove a Lamborghini Murcielago LP-640 Roadster and a Ford GT at the same time.....the Ford came in last place as the most fun to drive. The Scuderia is always "on".....so as you say, not for everyone.
     
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  17. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #67 furmano, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    All those models are in flux now. I.E., still depreciating, might be a little to early to put cash in one of those if you're worried about losing value. I favor the Scud as well but I am partial to Ferrari's; all of those cars are appealing. I suppose 430 S will hold its value over the next 1-3 years but can anyone be totally confident in that? New stuff has a way of driving down the not so new stuff.

    I assume McLaren's depreciate even faster than Ferrari's so there might be a value purchase to be found, not sure.

    You mentioned mileage not being an issue. You can use this to find possible bargains. Just make sure you get as much of a mileage discount as you can when you buy because you might have a mileage discount when you sell. :)

    Keep poking around, it's a buyer's market right now. A high mileage Scud might be a way to make it work. Just make sure that F1 trans is all cool, not all done. :)

    -F
     
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  18. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    Im not debating you on that matter, the superfast is an incredible transmission. What Im saying is what makes the 575 a desirable investment in my opinion at the $100k level is the fact that so few were made at just over 2000, the 364 gtb/4 dayton coupe they made 1,300 of and those are all $700k-$1m. The 246 Dino they made wayyyyyy more than the 575 and look where those are. If you're looking at modern Ferrari after the year 2000, there aren't any cheaper than the 575. The challenge stradale is almost $200k. The 430 Scud is $200k. The 599 GTO isn't close. The 458 Speciale isn't close. What other modern Ferrari after the year 2000 was made in quantities as low as the 575 and is around the $100k level at this moment in time? The original question was what low production car can I get for around $100k. The 599 is better in every way sure, but its not near $100k right at this time. The 575 being the first F1 fitted road going V12 combined with that bodystyle, it could very well be a classic one day. Look at classic cars from 30-40 years ago, people like oddities in cars. A so-so F1 system like original single disc clutch in the 575, thats something that will NEVER be made again and people will look at it in awe one day as the earliest F1 system Ferrari ever made, a system they now improve daily for all the newer cars.
     
  19. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    It is always difficult to be sure, and I am in no way a specialist of these cars, but I think (think…) the numbers are :
    550: 3083 coupés AND 452 or 460 Barchettas (depending on the number of prototypes you consider: some Italians sources say 4, others say 12)
    575M: 2056 coupés (of which either 177 or 246 - ?? – have a manual gearbox) AND 559 Superamericas (of which 43 have a manual gearbox.)

    Rgds
     
  20. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    The problem is that every car made nowadays is a "low production, special edition". If they all are then none are.
     
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  21. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    The reality is not many Ferraris since the 80s have been "low production". The 308,328,348 were all made in pretty decent quantities. The 355 I think over 10k made. The 360/430/458/488 were made in enormous quantities. The V12 cars were made in lower numbers. The 300SL is an iconic $1M+ car today, little known secret check the numbers, over 3200 were made. Eventually over time if you have a car like the 575 where 2000 were made and less than 600 came to the US. Time solves the rarity issue. Cars will be wrecked, cars will be lost, etc. You take a low production car and time will do the rest. At $100k I really can't think of another low production Ferrari, maybe a 348 speciale if you can find one or a 355 spider fiorano.
     
  22. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    Following figures should be "fairly reliable" shall we say?:

    308 = 12149, plus the italians cousins: 300 "208 atmospheric with the 2 liter V8"; and 687 "208 Turbos" = 13136 of all kinds
    328 = 7413 (1344 GTBs, 6068 GTSs, and one single factory made cabriolet) plus the "Italian cousins" = 1136 "Turbos"= 8549 of all kinds
    348 = 8212
    355 = 11273
    360 = 17667 (2630 coupés with manual gearbox (of which 352 UK RHD) + 6170 Coupés F1 (of which 702 UK RHD) + 2119 Spiders manual G'Box (of which 478 UK RHD) and 5460 Spiders F1 (of which 513 UK RHD) + 1288 Challenge Stradale (of which 119 UK RHD)
    430 = more than 20.000

    (figures for the 360 in the US market are: 4199 cars total, that is 1810 coupés (of which 469 with manual Gearbox) and 2389 spiders (of which 670 with manual Gearbox)
     
  23. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    and just remember that moving forward from here, ferrari is trying to turn into porsche and ramp up production, this will draw in many more fans to the brand and make smaller run, older cars that much more valuable as the brand develops new fans. The world is flooded with money today, so naturally Ferrari wants to ramp production. I dont blame them.
     
  24. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    Oh, I absolutely agree Dan, no question. These cars, that were all collectibles "in the old days of yore" by the simple reason of the very low production numbers, are now produced in larger series, which explain the apparition of those "special series" (numbered, etc...) which are now the collector's items, as the standard cars aren't anymore.

    THAT said, numbers are not always a key to collectibility; most of the time, yes, but not always: there are known counter-examples; for instance:
    - the variant produced in the lowest numbers of the whole 308 family is the 208 GTS; but very few persons are interested in that car, because it has a 2 litre (no turbo, naturally aspired) engine of a meagre 155 hp and the car is a sluggard....
    - The E-Type Jaguar has been built in more than 75.000 exemplaries, but the car was a ground breaker in its heydays, and is beautiful, so it is holding value very well...

    Rgds
     
  25. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    Correct and Im with you look how many corvettes were made in the 50s and 60s and they're way up there in value. I believe that the first going V12 with an interesting and outdated transmission we will never see again, the single disc clutch F1 in the 575, will be something people will look back on in 30 years and just see as incredible. The fact that only 1800 or so of the coupe exist with that groundbreaking F1 transmission is something I think alot of people are overlooking right now. Then again people were overlooking manual transmissions just a few years ago. Markets shift fast and when they do you just smile, but I definitely think most of todays youth not knowing how to drive a stick will work in favor of the earliest F1 system in the long run even though today many Ferrari fans consider them to be mediocre at best.
     

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