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Are us dumb Americans are getted ripped off for service ?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by parkerfe, Dec 5, 2003.

  1. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    I noted in the latest issue of AutoItalia magazine that an independant Ferrari service center in the UK was advertising a major service on a 512TR for a flat rate of 1200 pounds, which is a little less than $2000 US ! At that price you could almost ship your car to the UK, have the service done and then ship it back for less than you can have it done in the USA. The ad also promised same day service on "cam belt only" replacements on the 308 and 328 models.
     
  2. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
    Full Name:
    Hans E. Hansen
    Something is a bit fishy here. The labor involved in a *properly* done major for the TR series is substantial. If 1200GBP is the correct price, then the mechanic's hourly wage wouldn't buy him a pint after work!
     
  3. BWS550

    BWS550 Wants to be a mod

    Apr 1, 2002
    8,933
    NEW JERSEY
    Full Name:
    BRUCE WELLINGTON
    MAYBE AT THOSE PRICES, THEY ALL ARE DRINKING A PINT AT WORK :)
     
  4. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
    3,299
    Alabama (was Mich.)
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    I too agree that the UK price is very low...but I'll bet it's just as advertised...but I'll bet their ONLY doing the cam belts and tensioner bearings for that price, nothing else. And you can expect sloppy work like excess sealant on the gaskets oozing out everywhere, etc. When I did my TR major myself the parts alone were around $1,500 or so. Now if the parts costs are about half what they are in the U.S. that would help greatly. And I'm sure two good mechanics working together could remove and replace a TR motor with changing out belts/bearings in 8 to 10 hours. But if you own a Ferrari you SHOULD NOT skimp out on mechanical work!! The consequences of shoddy work are too great. You get what you pay for in this world.
     
  5. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
    Full Name:
    Hans E. Hansen
    2 mechanics X 10 hours ea = 20 hours. If the 1200GBP were labor only, that means that the shop is charging 60GBP per hour. Probably within reason, but what about parts?
     
  6. 348paul

    348paul Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2002
    1,098
    Kent - UK
    Full Name:
    Paul Hill
    These are a few companies that I know who offer fixed price servicing. I would have thought the hourly rate is more like £40 - £50.

    http://www.damax.co.uk/servicing.htm
    http://www.verdiferrari.biz/servicing.htm
    http://www.rosneathengineering.co.uk/Servicing.html
    http://www.rosneathengineering.co.uk/full_service_with_belts.html
    http://www.rossocorsa.co.uk/workshop.html
    http://www.hamletcg.co.uk/qv/offers.htm

    I have noticed that these prices have been coming down over the last couple of years.

    Paul
     
  7. BWS550

    BWS550 Wants to be a mod

    Apr 1, 2002
    8,933
    NEW JERSEY
    Full Name:
    BRUCE WELLINGTON
    PAUL

    PARDON MY IGNORANCE MATE BUT PLEASE TRANSLATE 30-40 PDS TO USD,

    THANKS
    BRUCE
     
  8. simon355

    simon355 Formula Junior

    Nov 23, 2003
    649
    W.Yorkshire, UK.
    Full Name:
    Simon George
    Yea,that seems about right for over here.Looking through the FOC club UK mag, theres several specialists advertising fixed price servicing and a major/18K service on a 512TR averages about £1100/£1200.Cambelts on top seem to add about another £250.Cambelts only, on a 512TR average about £800.This is all plus our value added tax at 17.5% means a cambelt and major service is going to top out about £1780.Cambelts only at £940.I've a 355 Spider.Just had major service,all belts,repainting of cam covers,waxoyled and a dozen other things for £1600 at a specialist.Be interesting to see how your parts prices compare.
     
  9. Bob Downing

    Bob Downing Karting

    Nov 7, 2003
    62
    Full Name:
    BobD
    In 2000 I weighed the costs of having major service done on my boxer at a dealer or doing it myself. The last service in my files cost the previous owner 6500$ and did not include head gaskets or a clutch pack. So i figured I could save money by doing it myself. the engine in the Boxer is easy to pull once you get all the peripherals off. I built a wooden engine stand with casters and purchased an Eagle four post lift.
    I replaced all hoses, belts, fuel injectors, timing belts and bearings, rebuilt the water pump, fuel filters, cold start components, brand new clutch pak, detailed the engine. engine bay, on and on. I spent 3500$ for parts (1400$ for the clutch pak) and 3000$ for the Eagle lift. My cost was roughly the same that Ferrari would charge except I got a new clutch, detailed engine, new fuel injectors and a brand new Eagle lift.
    I'm sure the europe price does not include clutch or head gaskets.
    So yes, we pay to much!
     
  10. Bob Downing

    Bob Downing Karting

    Nov 7, 2003
    62
    Full Name:
    BobD
    Don't forget in europe Mercedes are taxicabs, Ferrari's are everywhere and everyone wants a corvette or viper.
     
  11. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    bob - that kinda assumes your time is worth nothing, but presumably it was mostly fun to do in your spare time.

    doody
     
  12. mw575

    mw575 F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2001
    2,924
    Lake Oswego,Or
    Full Name:
    Martin J Weiner,M.D.
    Bruce,
    One pound sterling =approx $1.55 US
     
  13. 348paul

    348paul Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2002
    1,098
    Kent - UK
    Full Name:
    Paul Hill
    Bruce - $60 - $80 (roughly!)


    Paul
     
  14. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Nov 19, 2001
    21,826
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    "Are we getting ripped off"

    Uh the answer is YES! I have been saying this for the longest time. We get ripped off for just about everthing Ferrari related here in the United States. You have a little greedy Italian by the name of Luigi Chinetti to that for that, he is the guy that started Ferrari North America. We get burned for parts, service, and the price of the cars. Oh yeah and don't forget to throw in bad treatment. We get over charged for no other reason than we are Americans. If anyone wants to try and talk about import tax and customs, save it. We get over charged here and nobody gives a flip that we do because Ferrari's are considered a rich mans car. FNA is such a monopolistic company it isn't funny. They do everything in thier power to make sure that they get a portion of the profit, if not all of it, from everything Ferrari related sold in the U.S. They also make it as difficult as possible to get anything from over seas. I really hope that someday someone in government catches on to FNA's anitrust ways and puts a stop to it.
     
  15. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
    1,551
    Italy/India
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    I have just bought in Italy a 328 GTS that has not been running properly for several years. After having received a lot of useful suggestions from participants to this forum, I went out for a quote for the following:

    Replacement of:
    - All belts (including Cam Belts)
    - Tensioners
    - All Fluids
    - All filters
    General inspection included greasing and tuning.
    Every potential additional job to be quoted on top.

    Prices included man power & materials for the above only

    Prices ranged from 650 Euros (1 euro = 1.2 US$ / 1 euro = .7 GB pound) from a VERY independent mechanic to 2000 plus from the official Ferrari dealer.

    At the end I went for a non-official mechanic specialized in sport car with a wide experience in Ferrari who quoted 800 euros.

    In my opinion two facts come out of this:

    1st Yes, in the USA somebody is earning a lot of money out from Ferrari servicing
    2nd Somebody thinks that a "FERRARI AUTHORIZED" plate outside the shop authorizes to charge crazy money, it does not matter weather you are in Italy or USA..

    I do not know if the level of competence that, I hope, is ensured by the Ferrari official approval is such to justify the very high price. My past experience with Porsche denies this fact.
    Solutions? Perhaps a joint action toward central Ferrari After Sales branch could lead them to better control their service centers around the world, tightening control for both quality and charged rates....
     
  16. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    600
    St Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    PETER DELANEY
    I don't think it's rocket science to come to the conclusion that US prices are a rip off. Why is it that we can get almost every spare cheaper in the UK ... even after paying postage. That's why I think it important for us to keep developing a cross reference register. It's bad enough paying extortionate prices ... but for old technology ... nothing seems to improve e.g. the fuse box ... still riveted.
     
  17. rikilamb

    rikilamb Karting

    Nov 13, 2003
    67
    surrey
    Full Name:
    riki lamb
    Just had my 348ts yearly sevice in U.K. for $450.00 or £300.00
     
  18. racedecknc

    racedecknc Karting

    Nov 24, 2003
    198
    Winston Salem
    Full Name:
    Ed
    I have a friend that travels here regularly from the UK. He couriers a lot of parts back to the UK from here for Corvettes. I'm sure he'd be happy to use his empty suitcase coming over for extra revenue.

    Ed
     
  19. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Owner Consultant

    May 5, 2001
    6,951
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    FLAME ON:
    Quit bi*ching/whining, Just live with it & spend your dollars somewhere other than FNA if at all possible.

    Go search the archives for 'rip off' and you'll find several threads just like this one wasting storage space in the archives.

    So far no one has come up with anything that can be done to change FNA's monopolistic pricing except vote with their $ by buying from Ferrari.UK, Superformance.co.uk & the independant suppliers here in the US.

    In other words, pick whichever of the the following & write up something productive:

    1. Religious version:
    "God grant me the courage to change the things I can, the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference"

    2. the plain language version:
    "If it really bothers you, do what you can, and if you can't do anything about it, don't worry about it"

    3. A toast:
    "Here's to those who wish me well, the rest of you can go to hell"

    4. the shorthand soundbite version: "F#$& it"
     
  20. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    Verell,
    If I ever divorce my wife and run off with some little hottie,
    would you please make the toast at my wedding reception?
     
  21. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    well there are many 'independant ferrari service centres' in the uk some sadly lacking.

    Its an interesting thread actually, I know of a few individuals tempted by these 'lower rates' only to find the actual bill when one collects the car is far far higher as 'other things' were found.

    the problem is once they have the car what do you do? I think I woulld prefer to pay a bit more, safe in the knowledge there will not be further telephone calls advising of increases in the bill.

    For a 355 im paying 800 GBP for an annual service with the cambelts being £1500 additional
     
  22. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2003
    8,965
    Lewisville, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Guess
    Being a Former Service Manager myself (Not Ferrari), and that i teach dealership management at the school i work for here is my 2 Cents worth.

    Profit margins of a service department are the lowest of the dealership.

    Liability insurance is expensive and climbing in price constantly.

    Supply and demand ecomonics play a large part of it. GM + Fords are everywhere and there is a dealer on almost every street corner. result lots of competition and domestic vehicles are almost a neccesity in large cities. Therefore lower prices to the consumer.

    Ferraris, Lambos, Motorcycles are considered Luxury items and there is little competition for sales and service. End result it becomes a sellers market and prices increase.

    Other Factors, Ferraris are limited production items, the more produced the lower the cost for parts. Kawasaki and Suzuki are proving this fact right now by cross marketing bikes and sharring on parts purchasing. If GM buys a million turn signal bulbs a month for production, and Ferrari purchases the same bulb from the same supplier but at only 10,000 in a year. Who will get the better price per unit? GM.

    Lets face it when you bought a Ferrari you knew you were purchasing a limited production, Tempermental, Labor intensive work of automotive art. The cost of servicing these beautiful cars is expensive. and with the current climate that america is in with everyone taking everyone else to court for BS claims the prices are just going to rise and rise and rise.

    Think about this Custom built Chopper motorcycles in the price it is between 8000 - 10000 dollars for the liability insurace the builder has to spend per unit to make one. Think how much liability insurance Ferrari has to spend to cover themselves on each car that they build and sell in the US????

    Rob Guess "The Other Rob"
     
  23. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,167
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Dear Ferraristi,

    I just wonder if it's all related to supply and demand. Really, how many Ferraris of any given model are made? The parts will naturally be more expensive due to true lack of demand (compared to general cars )

    Porsche parts prices are cheaper because look at how many cars they make...36,000 a year, Ferrari about 7,500 or so.

    I disagree about the "monopolistic" aspect. They create the car so they control the parts prices like every other car manufacturer. I will say, I do get a shock when I buy parts for my Ford company trucks. I almost burst out laughing...that all? ( too used to being taken by Ferrari :) )
     
  24. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Nov 19, 2001
    21,826
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    You guys are on crack if you think Ferrari North America isn't monopolistic. Believe me when I say, that even right now, they are doing everything that they can to prevent, any and all, importation of parts from suppliers out side the United States. Now this isn't Ferrari SpA, I'm talking about FNA. One supplier I talked to out side the U.S. told me that they couldn't send stuff to the U.S. anymore because of FNA. FNA threatened to sue to get their Ferrari licence taken away if they kept selling parts to the U.S.. They didn't want any trouble so they stopped. I have bought parts outside the U.S. for my car for half as much as they would have cost me here, for the exact same part, and I payed for international shipping. We all have back doors to getting parts cheaper, but we shouldn't have to sneek around to get parts at a better price in a free market system. Don't you think that there have been several companies that would make parts for Ferrari's but don't? Have you ever thought as to why? It is because of FNA, and thier sewing. They do everything they can to make sure that they stay the only supplier for Ferrari parts in the United States, this way they can keep the prices sky high. But like I said before, Ferrari's are considered a wealthy mans car, so people don't give a rip about it.
     
  25. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    It's all relative to cost of living remember too, not just currency exchange rate.....

    My retail hourly rate as in independant is AUS$80/hr....about US$60 or UK33 pounds.

    I personally manage my overheads to be as low as practical, and pass as much as possible on to my customers.

    Unfortunatley for all you US guys...your cars are a nightmare to maintain compared to UK, HK, Aus, IT spec etc. The only spec that comes close to US levels is CH (Swiss).

    The extra crash protection, pollution and emission gear simply makes things take longer to access and repair, require more varied skills, more parts and more potential problems........whether you're being ripped off??.....Well, I've not lived in the US, have little idea of the cost of living, and no idea of the competition....
     

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