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Are we going to be nuked at election time?

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by kdross, Mar 15, 2004.

  1. kdross

    kdross Formula Junior
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    After the attack in Spain, I am very concerned that a major attack will occur here in the US prior to the November elections. My biggest fear is that they will use a suitcase nuke to destroy NYC or DC. There are many reports that numerous Russian suitcase nukes are missing, but there is no way to verify this info (at least I cannot verify the info).

    The terrorist attach on Spain greatly changed the outcome of the election. The conservative party was well ahead in the polls, but after the attacks the Socialists won the election. Based on news reports, it appears that the Spanish people were upset with the Conservative Party's support of the US war on Iraq. The bombing created more outrage against the Conservative Party and they voted them out. What is to stop the Terrorists from using the same tactic here or in other countires? To make matters worse, it was reported that the terrorists (Al Q) stated that they are 90% completed a massive attack against the US and that it is only a matter of time before they complete their mission.

    Based on the above statement by Al Q, and the fact that their next attack will more than likely surpass the damage they did non 9/11, I am very concern that they will resort to nukes. What do others think?

    This is a scarey time we live in. In hindsight, the Cold War was a safer time to live in. Only two countries had the bomb, and each was too scared to use it against the other. This is no longer the case.

    Ken
     
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  3. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Its not IF this will happen here, its WHEN. those folks don't give up.

    A dirty nuke would be only mildly distructive but difficult to clean up and very disruptive to commerce. The market would temporarily drop sharply and I think slowly go back up over 18 months or so.

    I'm not sure of political repreccusions here, but I doubt Spain would be a good model. Thats my totally baseless and unsupported opinion.

    mdstrib
     
  4. LouB

    LouB Formula 3

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    I think you and we all should be concerned. Osamo "changed a regime" in Spain and it could happen here. The conventional wisdom was he would not mount an attack before the election because that would help Bush. But today, after years of left wing attacks, giving aid and comfort etc, I think many, hopfully not most, have lost the stomach for a long, tough, fight to the finish. Shame on us. God help us if that left wing, appeasing , flip-flop fraud Kerry gets to be in charge. Osamo will dance on his mountain top.
     
  5. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Looks like a lot of americans are thinking about this also. Too bad the people of Spain didnt realize they were being manipulated by Assama. I'm sure the US would react in a similair fashion, after all wer'e all humans.

    I'm sure security will now be extremely tight in Nov before the elections. I hope they find Assama before Nov & put him in a cell next to SoDamn Insane & Noriega
     
  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Ken, this is easy to say, but if the crazies are able to get us to change our lifestyle and walk around in fear, they win.

    The main lesson of 9/11 is that folks in the USA must understand that there are people in the world who hate us and want to kill us. Kindiness and understanding don't work. The only answer is to hunt down these rabid dogs and kill them before they kill us.

    We also need to send a strong signal to any sympathetic government that they will suffer the same fate. My suggestion is that we follow the money trail. It works every time.

    I know that this sounds cold and harsh. Indeed, it sounds very unamerican. But this is not our usual day, and these are unusal times.

    Take care, Dale
     
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  8. benedict

    benedict Formula Junior

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    Bush has caught alot of flak from critics saying there was little or no link to our invasion of Iraq and 911 terrorism. However, obviously Al-Qaeda were incensed enough to bomb Spain for their support of the war in Iraq. Something struck a nerve with them. It is also interesting to note that France has had many recent threats against their own rail systems. (In true French fashion though, they came up with 5 million dollars to try to assuage the terrorists.) I would be much more worried about our subways and trains. It is virtually impossible to protect a system with literally hundreds of points of entry. Even an attempt to do so would cripple the entire system.
     
  9. JH

    JH F1 Veteran

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    It is not verified that the letter was from Al Q, so don't put your money on it. That 90% thing could be real, but there isn't any proof that it was send from them, so don't panic over there :)
     
  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jonas, in the big picture, it really doesn't make any difference who the murderers were in Spain. There are sickos all over the world, from Ireland to Columbia to Pakistan/India to the West Bank to Korea to Spain to Indoesia to the Arab Street to who knows where. The point is that we must hunt these people down where ever they are and stop them before they kill again. Turning the other cheek will only result in you being next on the list.

    Best, Dale
     
  11. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Yes and No. Yes, I agree we must hunt down the current crop of psychos in Afghanistan, Iraq, NK, Columbia, Mexico, Venezuela, & right here in the USA.

    But at the same time we must ensure by funding education in these places that the next generation doesnt grow up to be even worse. The Saudis spent Big $ on Muslim schools indoctrinating children to hate the west so we need to spend $ to undo the damage they have done there & in the rest of the world

    If we dont care for the next generation we'll just be at war forever with crazy USA hating loons
     
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  13. karmavore

    karmavore Formula 3

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    I'm pretty damn liberal but I too am OUTRAGED that spain is _ussying out over the bombs and planing to withdrawl their troops. What the hell kind of message does that send?????

    I think America would be different. When attacked we get pissed! Our only problem is our attention span.

    Luke.
     
  14. kdross

    kdross Formula Junior
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    I agree with Dr. Tax and others with the same view point. We must hunt down and kill these people. My big problem with the current situation is that the US is not doing enough to protect us. A week after 9/11, all middle eastern muslim males, especially those here on a student visa, should have been deported. Since most of them are here illegally, this is not a constitutional issue. We also should have stopped importing all oil from the middle east. This is how the terrorist get most of their money. We have plenty of other sources of oil in the world. Saudi Arabia is the biggest problem, but I read where the Bush's are friends with the Royal family, so I doubt that any real efforts will be taken against them. This is a big problem.

    To compound the problem, the terrorists do not have a country or home for us to destroy. They have been able to mix with the worlds population and this makes it almost impossible for us to kill them. To fight this war, we have to have lots of patience and devote a lot of resources and money to the war effort. I also agree that we have to follow the money trail of the terrorist and get their money. The American public should be up in arms, but they are not. They are more concerned about what is on TV tonight than world affairs.

    To make matters worse, I do not think that our government, or the public, will fight the war against terrorism the way it should be fought. Our society is too politically correct and has too many interest groups to fight the war properly. As I said, we need to start deporting people ASAP. And I believe that this can all be accomplished without violating the constitution or drastically altering our way of living. We just need a little common sense and a president who will standup to the terrorist and does not care whether his actions are politically correct.

    Ken
     
  15. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    You are right. Sadly, I see us as having no choice but for the USA to directly get involved in nation building. The passive indirect UN approach didn't work and ain't gonna work. Did you read the article in the WSJ about how the Iraqi "Oil for food" program was a massive rip off by Saddam and his henchmen? Sad to say, but the UN itself has turned into a massive fraud.

    Take care, Dale
     
  16. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    Is that a serious paragraph? I have trouble believing that is a serious paragraph.

    Though I agree with Dr. Tax as well. We need to hunt down and kill these terrorists and we also need to remove the people, organizations and nations that support them. If that means occupying countries for a few years then that is what needs to be done.
     
  17. Garretto

    Garretto F1 Rookie

    Sep 3, 2003
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    I thought I'd post this here, too. Kinda hidden in the other thread. By this I want to make you Americans see that we Spaniards are not chicken, but a country fully against ANY form of violence. Plus the US methods and foreign policies don't get much support around here.

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10955&page=2

    I would like to remind you that the people of Spain strongly opposed the government taking part in Irak war. By 'strongly' I mean the biggest ever demonstrations to date showing that Spaniards were fully against any kind of militar intervention in Irak. All media also against interevention, I would say more than 99% of the Spanish people were against the war. Even Aznar voters were! So this was possibly one of the clearest examples of a government ignoring people's voice in a modern democracy.

    You cannot dissappoint the public opinion in such a great extent and in such an important matter as a war and then simply hope they forget about it in the next elections. Not to mention other domestic mistakes.

    It is very sad that last Thursday's attacks have helped people remember how wrong the administration of this goverment has been. But it is clear that Spain does not want war, does not want terrorism, does not want a liar and deaf government and, yes, we tend to forget mistakes very soon.
     
  18. mbmike

    mbmike Formula Junior

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    It's extremely naive to think that being in Iraq will cause AQ to target one's nation. The fact of the matter is that AQ doesn't really care about Iraq. They don't really care about Afghanistan. They don't even really care about Israel. All that these people want is the complete destruction of the western way of life. Israel is a target not because of the Jewish religion, but because it is an extension of Western affluence and democracy in their part of the world. The upset victory of the socialists in Spain will do nothing to protect Spain. If anything, they will make it even more insequre. Now AQ knows that they can control Spanish policy through their threats. And AQ isn't gonna stopt them until Spain is a Sharia-following theocracy forcing women to cover themselves. Spain just opend a serious can of worms on itself.

    These people can only be delt with by force. It seems like Europe, in their traditional fashion, is willing to appease them in order to prevent conflict. And who can blame them? They've spent centuries destroying each other. I think they're definitely beyond that, but the've become too scared of war in general. The fact of the matter is, if we don't take care of them now, they will be even harder to fight in the future.
     
  19. benedict

    benedict Formula Junior

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    [. Now AQ knows that they can control Spanish policy through their threats. And AQ isn't gonna stopt them until Spain is a Sharia-following theocracy forcing women to cover themselves. Spain just opend a serious can of worms on itself.


    I couldn't agree more. That knee-jerk reaction of changing the outcome of the election was an unbelievably dangerous precedent. The message to AQ is that a few well placed bombs right before election day can get them whatever they want.
     
  20. tifosi69

    tifosi69 Formula 3

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    Very well said. The libs had Bin Laden handed to them on a silver platter but Clinton had no BJ scandals to spin at that moment so he did nothing... as a result 3,000 people died.
     
  21. tifosi69

    tifosi69 Formula 3

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    And you would think that all these European nations would have a memory for history that goes back 50 years and recall what appeasement and *****-footing around does. I am amazed the Spanish people voted in a ******* socialist party because of this. All they are going to do is discuss AQ's FEELINgs, and why they don't like us and how do we make them like us more, all the while their leaders will be handing terrorists the keys to the country. PATHETIC!!
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    IMHO Very Sad.
     
  23. MarkG

    MarkG Formula Junior

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    Could be the socialists who just gained control did the bombing and placed blame elsewhere (remeber the Reichstag fire incident?). Seems this bombing did not fit past patterns of either ETA (who phones ahead and has not targeted general poulation from what the 'experts' say) or AQ (which does not take credit for their bombings as quickly as they are supposed to have done here). And AQ has nothing to gain from a Communist government being elected.

    It would take a Hiroshimo sized bomb to level NYC or any other city; these don't come in suitcases, and arn't built in caves.

    Spain just sent a message to other world leaders that when the majority of your citizens oppose the government's choices, they will replace you - for better or for worse. Remeber this though, anyone who would give up their freedom for security deserves neither.
     
  24. karmavore

    karmavore Formula 3

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    Ummm, NO. I believe that at the last minute the Saudi's reneged.

    Luke.
     
  25. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    some strange thoughts expressed by some in this thread:

    garetto: you are not alone in abhorring violence and war - we all do. the usa is not involved in iraq and afghanistan because we are bloodthirsty revenge seekers. we are involved there because sticking your head in the sand and hoping the bad guys will ride on to the next village has been a losing proposition since time began. wake up and smell the cafe con leche, voting for somebody who wants to remove troops from iraq means that you have now become the number one favorite country of ossama and terrorists in general - which means that the next time eta wants something they know exactly how to get it - just kill people and the voters will acquiesce. sorry but that is just not the american way, and it is not the way to rid yourself of evil. but please do enjoy the higher taxes that will be coming your way shortly.

    kdross: we can't deport everybody that doesn't hold a usa passport and we shouldn't want to since this is no way of assuring our security and we would lose many good people who do contribute to our society in a positive way. we also can't embargo oil from all muslim countries or our economy would go up in smoke. we are 50pct of the worlds oil consumption, and if you disrupted the supply chain and forced us to buy outside of the normal (economic) routes we would be paying more like $6/gl at the pump.

    the terrorists are smart; we have to beat them by being smarter than them, not dumber.

    i would hypothesize that the reason this incident occurred in spain and not in the usa or the uk (far bigger demons on the alqueda radar), is that the vigilence in these 2 countries is extreme. i am pretty sure that there are probably 5 similar incidents/mth that are foiled in both countries (maybe more). the only reason they have not happened is because every person and certainly every law enforcement type of person had got their eyes peeled for anything/everything.

    none of us are immune from this mindless violence. look at the bombings in indonesia, look at morroco, look at riyadh, look at istanbul, look at athens, look at the foiled attempt in singapore, these are not staunch supporters of the usa, or the war in iraq. they were still hit though.

    and nobody should think that all this will end when/if they capture bin laden. the cells work independently. as somebody else said, we need to change the way these people are taught to think from a very young age, and that will take a generation, and its not a job for the weak willed, indecisive or poll panderers.
     
  26. tifosi69

    tifosi69 Formula 3

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    True, but I think we had a chance to nip it in the bud BEFORE it gradually had a life unto itself. NOW, with or without Bin Laden they continue, I am not so sure 4 or 5 years ago though. Who knows. But you are most CERTAINLY correct in saying you cannot bury your head in the sand. They did that in 1939 with Hitler and Poland and the Sudentenland and look where that got them.
     
  27. KMS

    KMS Formula Junior
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    I think just about everyone on this thread should STOP using the term "we" since there are clearly actual soldiers in combat areas and it is unlikely that they are posting on this board. "Our countries soldiers" will suffice and be far more respectful of American soldiers in actual combat areas.
     
  28. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i disagree with you kms.
    i think by saying 'we', that we are recognizing that our country's fight against terrorism is an all inclusive affair. the soldiers are doing their jobs around the world, but the rest of us have to support them financially and morale wise, and fight against those in the press or politics that seek to hinder or undermine their efforts.
    certainly when i am ranting on this subject, i do not consider myself in the same realm as soldiers waging war, but i do consider myself on their team, like the waterboy or the scorekeeper.
    they are 'my' team so i will continue to use the word 'we'.
     

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