News

Automotive International 1978 308 GTS - Complete Restoration

Discussion in '308/328' started by PETER@TEAM AI, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. PETER@TEAM AI

    PETER@TEAM AI Karting
    Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2014
    122
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Peter Nikonovich
    About 3 years ago a customer called us to get his 308 GTS out of storage after sitting for nearly 20 years. The techs here had serviced the car prior to it going into storage so we knew it. He wanted to get it back on the road, get a new interior in it and maybe paint it. Make it a very nice driver. So the journey started with a major service, new brake parts, some electrical work, cleaning out the fuel delivery system... all the normal things you would think of for a car sitting 20 yrs untouched. As the work progressed we discussed doing a more comprehensive restoration with the owner. After some time we agreed to the scope of the restoration with consideration we would like to have it judged at Cavallino. Thus the journey we are about to share. Our goal is now Cavallino 2019. In full disclosure, as the depth and scope of the restoration expanded the owner of the car decided restoration was not his passion. Automotive International (AI) purchased the car and have been moving forward with the restoration. The depth and scope became and is complete disassemble of the car, every component except the internals of the engine. And reassembly back to factory day one condition and finish, a comprehensive restoration down to each nut and bolt and overspray. We are several years in now so this will happen quicker in posts. I have seen two restorations to this level, both at Cavallino, one from Carl at BlackHorse and one done by Ferrari. Few take the time to recreate such a car. We hope you enjoy the posts.

    The following pictures are from the day the rollback dropped it off:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 16, 2011
    6,572
    Hagerstown, Md
    Full Name:
    Robert (Scrounger)
    Subscribed
     
  3. timr

    timr Karting

    Sep 24, 2006
    208
    Seattle Washington
    Full Name:
    Tim
    I’m sure we would all like to know the end cost. Partially because we are curious but also so we know how underinsured we are when it comes to making sure we are covered and the value quoted.

    There is an interesting disconnect between your insured value, market value and replacement cost.

    I wonder if understanding a full restoration cost helps increase the value on the open market for the marque by validating the cost to get to a restored vehicle or decreases the value by discouraging the effort due to return on investment. At what point do they align, If ever.

    Just pondering, nothing more...



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    JuLiTrO likes this.
  4. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Rookie
    Sponsor Owner

    Sep 3, 2002
    4,904
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    Given the level of restoration described by the OP and the current cost of a 308 the job will cost several times more than the value of the car. Restoration is normally paid at pennies on the dollar when it comes to resale and you will be hard pressed to find an insurance company that will insure your car for a ‘replacement value’ that factors the cost of restoration
     
    pshoejberg and Crowndog like this.
  5. PETER@TEAM AI

    PETER@TEAM AI Karting
    Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2014
    122
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Peter Nikonovich
    While I agree with Rob that many restorations cost more than the car is worth I have not seen the case of several times the value except in some restomods of classic muscle cars. Maybe if compared to a well driven non restored 308 it could be double, not sure. But such a restoration is not for the faint of heart nor for a person(s) not totally committed. Fortunately our team is capable and committed to doing this project. The tear down post will start tomorrow.
     
    lm2504me likes this.
  6. PETER@TEAM AI

    PETER@TEAM AI Karting
    Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2014
    122
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Peter Nikonovich
    As readers’ will note the original car was red. When we started the tear down to do a complete restoration of every aspect of the car back to how it rolled off the assembly line we had just finished a major service of the engine, went through the braking system and the body had been stripped for repainting. This was in preparation for a yellow spray, new interior and the car was to be a driver. Instead we changed course and factory correct was the goal. And we have been on the journey for 2 years now (some time passed due to other priorities in the shop).

    Given the major change in goals a complete and detailed evaluation of what we had and what we need to address was required. To do this we removed the belly pans, boot, bonnet and interior and started inventorying. Every wire, clamp, hose and component of every system in the car was assessed and the needed work was documented. An initial frame and body panel inventory of potential work required was done. More disassembly would be needed to finish both but it provided a lot of information.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. PETER@TEAM AI

    PETER@TEAM AI Karting
    Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2014
    122
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Peter Nikonovich
    Disassembly continued as we removed under panels, the engine, remaining components, then all the glass. Major surprise in between two layers of insulation above the muffler we found a screwdriver who has lived there since the original production!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 16, 2011
    6,572
    Hagerstown, Md
    Full Name:
    Robert (Scrounger)
    Nothing unusual as I also found the same screwdriver in the same place during my restoration!
     
  9. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2012
    2,612
    HDH - SBA - IGM - JWY
    Full Name:
    Will
    All that for a US Carb GTS...I’m impressed! Looks to be coming along but the timeline is really confusing...
     
  10. gbutler

    gbutler Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 24, 2010
    482
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Glenn Butler
    Being local to the Charlotte area, I have watched this project progress for at least the last 18 months, maybe even longer. I think Peter is just playing catch up with updating this forum in advance of the car making it's debut in less than two months at Cavallino. As to the value proposition and asking the question of why for a 308, Nuvolari cited that the cost would be several times what the car is worth. That may be correct if you are comparing the cost and value proposition to an average driver, but from my research and talking to others who have done similar "nut and bolt" restorations AND sold their cars, the price obtained seems to be anywhere from 150 to 200k (and I am not talking about glass cars!). Just look at Al's 308 GT4's as an example -- and I know of a handful of other GTB and GTS's that have also found new homes after a full restoration. So suddenly the arithmetic makes a little more sense, especially if you are starting with a car that you may have only 20 or 30k into it at most.
     
  11. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Rookie
    Sponsor Owner

    Sep 3, 2002
    4,904
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    For a top level FCA Platinum quality nut and bolt restoration the math does not come close to making sense on a 308 even if the donor car is free. A few years back I did Dino that scored multiple 100 point scores including at an FCA National Meet. I got well entrenched into the Ferrari restoration world, became friends with most of the major restoration players, and got a great feel for what things actually cost (which was miles away from what I 'thought' they cost).

    Using the Dino as an example, that job was over 7000 hours not counting research and parts hunting. Feel free to multiply that by a reasonable local labor rate of your choosing. The parts bill topped $100K and the paint and body ate up 1500 hours alone (without any major corrosion or any accident damage to deal with). Once done the car was looked over by the guys from the top shops and when I quoted them my numbers they all said that it all sounded pretty reasonable and in line with their experience.

    The irony is that the labor is the same whether it be a 5 million dollar or a 50K car and in fact a 308 or Dino is more difficult to do than say a 50's 250 series Ferrari as the cars are more complex and have more bits to restore and attend to.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled restoration :)
     
  12. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2012
    2,612
    HDH - SBA - IGM - JWY
    Full Name:
    Will
    I know. And agree. My Charles Pozzi delivered ‘77 dry sump steel 308GTB has been getting restored for over two years...closer to 3 actually. I got the car for 40K but will be in over 200K by the time it’s done. No way it would sell for that. Not right now anyway.
     
  13. gbutler

    gbutler Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 24, 2010
    482
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Glenn Butler
    I am not saying that the numbers make sense, just that multiples of what the car is worth is a little extreme. And I also certainly agree that as an individual getting the work done and paying retail prices at the various restoration shops is most likely going to lead to an “upside down” scenario, atleast for a 308. The intent of my previous post when I commented on the value equation was to make the point that many of the cars that I have seen get a quality nut and bolt restoration have sold for between 150 and 200k. Whether that makes sense financially or from any other intangible aspect should be left up to the individual owner choosing to get the work done.
     
    Hannibal308 likes this.
  14. PETER@TEAM AI

    PETER@TEAM AI Karting
    Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2014
    122
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Peter Nikonovich
    Sorry about the sequence, time has passed and we did not necessarily plan to document the project in detail. This are the last macro pics with engine, suspension and a few components in place. Trying to get the sequence better going forward. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Hannibal308 likes this.
  15. PETER@TEAM AI

    PETER@TEAM AI Karting
    Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2014
    122
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Peter Nikonovich
  16. PETER@TEAM AI

    PETER@TEAM AI Karting
    Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2014
    122
    Charlotte
    Full Name:
    Peter Nikonovich
    Engine is now out and began to undertake the hours of disassembly needed to gently soda blast all visible parts/components to return to a factory look, or as close as possible. We had already done a major to the engine about 8 months prior. As time went on we replaced some parts we could not clean, all clips and clamps, many studs and nuts. All back to original parts. This will be seen more later.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

Share This Page