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Avoid the Garage queens!

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by parkerfe, Apr 22, 2004.

  1. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    While speaking with Wade at FOA this morning he told me of a 1988 328 he was working on for about the 10th time in the last year. He said the owner bought it last year with less that 100 miles on the car. Since then, the owner has spent over $20k in trying to sort the car out from all the problems caused from sitting so long. So this fellow paid a premium to buy a low mileage car and has now paid over $20k more so he could drive it a little. Wade said most of the problems would have been covered by warranty had the originally buyer drove to car a little to find the problems while the warranty was still in effect. Makes me want to drive my little Fiat Boxer even more miles per year!
     
  2. LRPMAN

    LRPMAN Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    383
    Aiken S.C. & FL.
    Full Name:
    George Pavlisko
    Our QUEEN has 8,200 and is a 1988 TR. The PO spent over $30K getting the car ready to sell for the estate. It was nice getting a low miles car and even better to have the heavy money paid by someone else. We try and drive th car at least 200 to 300 miles per month.
     
  3. chasking

    chasking Formula Junior

    Nov 27, 2003
    317
    Chicago, IL
    Full Name:
    Chuck King
    I'm curious: how much exercise does a car need to avoid "garage queen" syndrome?
     
  4. 911Fan

    911Fan Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2004
    1,291
    Southern California
    "I'm curious: how much exercise does a car need to avoid "garage queen" syndrome?"

    500 miles a month is a pleasant way to avoid garage queenitis.
     
  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,972
    50 miles in one run once a month is enough to get all the parts and fluids up to temperature and drive off the water vapor and lubricate all the baren parts. In additioin, this keeps the tires from flat spotting, and as long as its out, you might as well wash it and vacuum the interior,......

    However, the car will enjoy 50 miles per week a lot better than 50 miles a month. Mine is averaging 800 miles a month.
     
  6. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
    1,551
    Italy/India
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    I bought my 1986 328 in December 03, with 13000 miles on it. It had been in a garage for the last 6 / 7 years, even if started regularly.
    Immediately after having bought it, I had cam belts replaced, all fluids and filters replaced, general inspection and... It works perfectly, a real beauty.
    So.... Am I just lucky or a former (now I try to use it as much as I can) garage queen can be a good buy more than somebody thinks?
    Just my 2 p....
    Ciao

    Eugenio
     
  7. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Apr 1, 2004
    10,480
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    not an f-car story but relevant non-the less. i aquired a 71' 429SCJ motor for my current project. the motor had been sitting for 15yrs with all fluids still in it. first thing i did was tear it down completly and what i saw was pretty scary. rust and sludge was everywhere. thankfully the owner had enough sense to fill the oil pan with marvle myst. to keep it from going to tar. nedless to say it cost me 4k in machining and cleaning/tanking to get her back into shape. the carburator was not drained of its fuel so it's shelacked to the point where i'm not going to re-use it, it can be rebuilt and cleaned but i'm not going for a numbers matching here.

    so if thats what happens to the motors i shudder to think of the damage to rest of the car, esp. a F-car :(

    good thing it doesn't get cold enough here but if you don't drain the coolant when storing a car and it dips below freezing the block can crack right open -ouch $$$$. water when it freezes has tremendous force.
     
  8. LRPMAN

    LRPMAN Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    383
    Aiken S.C. & FL.
    Full Name:
    George Pavlisko
    I like your number, that will give us enough running on nice roads and still keep the car in the low miles family. We have 9 cars so a daily driver it will never be. The wife wants to do the show car thing which is fine with me.
    Take Care
    George P.
    P.S. The TR will be at the Walter Mitty next month. If you are there drop by the LEATHERIQUE Trailer and say hello.
     
  9. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    44,350
    Texas!
    I have always wondered about people who buy these very low mileage cars. My guess is that the first owner was speculating. (Apparently, this happened to a lot of F40s.) But why would a second owner pay a large premium for a Queenie? If you drive it, there goes the neighborhood. If you store it, what's the point? Keep in the garage while it dry rots? Who are you going to sell to?

    Dale


     
  10. LRPMAN

    LRPMAN Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    383
    Aiken S.C. & FL.
    Full Name:
    George Pavlisko
    In our case it was an estate car, the owner died before any title was issued. So we got, the estate got, an MSO on the car. The paperwork shows the car built in 1988 but not brought to the US intill 1993 when a Dr in Tenn. bought the car, he NEVER put plates on it. The car got a total of 6300 miles form 1993 to 2002. The DR. died and his lawyer took over the car. The lawyer was going to keep the car, but he died, (NO BS). That is 2 down, the next person was the lawyer that was the friend of the lawyer that died. He and Supercars of Atlanta got the car up to specifications so it could be sold by the estate. That is when we got the car. On delivery it had 7346 mils it now has 8,326. We got the car in October of 2003.
    As of the last doctor visit I am still around and enjoying the heck out of the car.
    Take Care
    George P.
     
  11. RAYMAN

    RAYMAN Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Mar 10, 2004
    315
    Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Raymond Santilli
    I still say it's better to buy a low mileage car, have it completely serviced, and then YOU put the miles on her, not worry about how 5 other owners treated her.
     
  12. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
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    Martin W.
    Yep, buy a low miles car for a premium that had the speedo disconnected to all you miles crazed owners can say you have a low miles car, or where the car truely has been sitting for years at a time and you end up paying the mechanic.
    Yep makes perfect sense.
    Forget the quality of the car, just buy by miles on the speedo.

    Your mechanic will love you. He probably has kids that you will pay for college :)

    ah, stepping of my soapbox!
     
  13. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
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    Martin W.
    ...uh ja, and everytime you will feel guilty when you actually do what this machine was built for...that is ....
     
  14. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2003
    7,878
    western hemisphere
     
  15. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2003
    7,878
    western hemisphere
    Well said, Martin. What is truly frightening is how darn easy it is for one to disconnect the speedo sensor on the F-cars and, Vua-la! 10 years later you have a car with 3000 miles on the clock!
     
  16. LRPMAN

    LRPMAN Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    383
    Aiken S.C. & FL.
    Full Name:
    George Pavlisko
    IF the documents where not solid and IF the receipts where not verifed and IF we did not get a DEATH CERTIFICATE of the owners I would agree. BUT if you do your homework and let the PO pay for all the big stuff (30K in our case) and have all the documents to prove it then you can get a low millage car for a good price.
    There are a bunch out there with phoney numbers but with the ability to chase a car down via records and the knowledge that you can gain from a forum like this you are not the normal wide eyed sap looking to get taken.
    IMHO, picking the brain of the people on this forum helped me find the TR we have. I thank you all for that and will gladly help the next person find there car and not get taken. Honest people like Martin take the worry out of buying but there are far to many out there who see $$$ and will say anything and do anything to sell a pile of junk as a show winner.
    Take Care
    George P.
     
  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    44,350
    Texas!
    George, you sound like the exception to the rule. I wasn't into Ferraris back then, but I have heard a lot of stories of people who brought F40s new and then stored them hoping to make a profit. Well, that never happened, but the number of F40s with less than 2,000 miles is simply amazing.

    I wonder if the same will hold true for Enzos.



     
  18. Exoticbro

    Exoticbro Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    203
    St.Louis, MO
    Full Name:
    Chuck Ligon
    I see it every day, a buyer will pass on a car that is in better condition and
    has better documentation but has more miles.

    Chuck
     
  19. LRPMAN

    LRPMAN Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    383
    Aiken S.C. & FL.
    Full Name:
    George Pavlisko
    That is so true. The low miles syndrom can be very expensive as stated many time. In my experience the female is the mileage person and the male just wants the car.
    I think the Barrett Jackson car search will cause more of the LOW MILES cars to be bought because of the way things are presented. Horror stories of $30,000.00 low miles cars costing $50,000.00 to get running NEVER MAKE THE MAIN STREAM PRESS.
    Oh well, can only hope peolple look before they buy.
    Take Care
    George P.
    "Gotta get ready for 2 shows"
     
  20. RAYMAN

    RAYMAN Formula Junior
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    Mar 10, 2004
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    Raymond Santilli

    Yep that's me!
     
  21. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    It's always a risk. But I think you can also get a good feeling for how many your miles the car has on it. Looking at other TR's I would not trade mine in a second! The thing looks like it just came out of the showroom. There is something to be said for a mint 16 year old car. But like Rayman said, I would rather get a pristine car that has been serviced properly and drive it without worrying about what some other yahoo did to the car. For me, there was no worry about the car having the speedo disconnected - All the records support the mileage and the car looks perfect - Inside and out.
     
  22. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    Nov 17, 2003
    11,495
    NYC. / E. Hampton
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    Michael
    You guys are seriously overinflating this thread, Just like the telivision media over states a hurricane or a snow storm, sure we might get 28 inches but in reality we only got 4 inches of snow.
    Bottom line is if you aquire a pre purchase inspection and the car checks out, When it comes time to resell,The masses will pay more for a low mileage car anyday over a high mileage example Bar non. for Example.Which one of the following would you take from this group.

    1).1974 246 dino gts...71,000 miles red/tan chares /flairs some rust.needs paint and cosmetics , daily driver.some smoke. call eves.$ 75,000.00

    2).1973 246 Dinogts.6500 original miles, stored in heated humidity controlled environment, Never in rain or snow. Yellow/ black. chairs flares and campy's.
    all records from 2 owner history.recent respray and detailing. 30,000 mile service performed last year.Investment quality ready for show or go!
    Call days ...Price $125,000.00

    3). 1974 246 dinogts. 51000 miles, black black. new tires and clutch. interior good , chrome fair. all original paint and mouse hair dash.california car looking for good home. no jack or service records. $90,000.00


    I know which one I would take, With # 2 you know that if it check out in ppi, you wont have to sink 25 g's in to fix it up.
    with # 1 , the cost of a frame off restoration would be equivelent to # 2's cost anyway, so resale would be 125 + the 75 you payed for it..Thats a no go.
    With # 3 you know you going to have to put something in it, whether its 20,30 or 40 g, you will never have a low mileage clean example, just a driver.

    MORAL of the story! You cannot beat a Low mileage Ferrari at a reasonable price.Like age Mileage is something you can never get back.
     
  23. RAYMAN

    RAYMAN Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Mar 10, 2004
    315
    Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Raymond Santilli
    Have to agree with all that
     
  24. spike308

    spike308 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 8, 2003
    3,968
    Austin TX!
    Full Name:
    Mike Z
    Maybe I'm a fool, but... I bought mine with almost 50K on it, and intend on keeping it the rest of my life. I drive her without regards to the number of miles. When she needs a rebuild... so be it, then I drive some more.
    It is NOT an investment, it is a dream that I am living.
    When I aquire my next one (add to the collection), I intend on doing the same.
     
  25. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    I would say they are all overpriced.

    I would take a good look at #1 though and see how much there really is. This seller may be overstating the facts (yes there is some out there) and the humified garage may be a regular garage with an open box of Baking Soda in the corner. Does not mean that becuase it has 6500 Miles it does not rust.

    As for your service docs show the miles to be true....yeah right. Since you can disconnect them in a matter of a minute you can disconnect for months at a time and reconnect, get some hundred miles more and do another oil change. Things like new tires you just leave out of the records. There are tell-tell signs on the car if that has happened that most can not find and read. I have a hard time.

    As I said and as Chuck confirmed, it is this miles craze that lets you forget to drive your cars or makes you feel guilty for driving them and putting precious miles on them.
     

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