B-17 and P-63 lost at Dallas CAF show

Yep. They had to run them for high boost on high gross takeoff and all the way up to 33,000 feet and left there for high altitude cruise. Don't need them for puddling around at 10 to 15,000 feet and light.

 

It is a big deal getting a ride in a B-17, or any WW-II aircraft. Never have myself.

 

As the years go by it becomes more obvious how coarse and brutish they were but well engineered for their time. I have flown in all but the Martin B-26 and the Douglas A-26 "heavies" and the P-47 and P-40. Everybody had their hands (and brains) full to keep them running per the training and the books. The airplanes did nothing to help you. Mayhem for a while when something went wrong. Nobody now has any idea of how much the bomber crews suffered just to get their airplane to assigned altitude and to keep it in close formation for 6 to 8 hours when it was -50 deg. Then there were other things near and over the target. Long range fighter missions weren't any easier from what I was told. All are owed more accolades than they will ever receive.

 

Not a big surprise. If I was in the insurance business insuring these in any way I'd have them grounded while we worked some issues out. Too many have been going down for bad reasons. That 17 that went down on airport property with passengers. Evidently a respected company but investigation showed it not to be airworthy by any stretch and it was all deferred or poorly performed maintenance. After reading what they found in the mags it was amazingly dumb to be flying it.
I know many are not insured but not sure thats possible for the groups that fly around selling rides. I'd think at least there is some liability coverage.

I suspect Reno ended partially for same reasons.

 

Yep, I saw this first hand when we had all flyable B-17's at the 50th anniversary celebration. I won't mention any names but one of the B-17's flown in was flown by a guy that collected bombers and flew them. It was obvious that was all that they did because after some starting problems one morning, the B-17 was inspected and we immediately took it down to the shop where it had all 8 mags rebuilt, the brakes rebuilt, and some hydraulic leaks fixed. Those were the main things and how the airplane got to Seattle was a mystery. It had five passengers also.

 

Small wonder the accident rate during the war was roughly 70 times what we see now for military aircraft and even higher compared to airliners.

 

The report on the one I am talking about had both mags on one engine were just barely functioning. They had real trouble starting it and based on mag condition could not possibly have made power. Pure neglect. Had not seen service in a very long time. The other engine on same side had one mag non functional and second had jury rigged repair that shortly after take off failed. He was low, slow and dirty with 2 functioning engines on same side.

One engine had been crippled for some time and could not possibly passed a run up to any satisfactory RPM the other could not possibly have passed mag tests prior to take off and he was carrying passengers in it.
Supposedly the most experienced B17 pilot alive. I learned a very long time ago, experience and competence are not the same thing.

 

Big complex recips need a lot of man hours to keep running. If not for jets air travel would still be an expensive luxury.

 

Brian- Affirmative. On the early turbo-jets, they used to clean them by throwing walnut shells down the intake. They were pretty tough. Not something we would do now.

 

I was born in 1952 at the NAS in Key West. We later moved to Pax River, which at the time was a test base. I still remember smoke and sirens. Looking back, it must have been tough kissing your man goodbye in the morning knowing you might never see them again.

 

In WW2, bomber crews never knew if the entire crew with whom you had breakfast would be back for evening chow. Some times that would include 5 or 6 crews in a squadron....55 to 66 men.

 

Just think of the Schweinfurt raids - 60 planes lost on one mission. That'e 600 men killed or imprisoned!

 

A very large percentage of POWs held by Germany were bomber crews. If it is any comfort Germany took pretty good care of them.
We had a family friend, a Marine captured at Corregidor. More Americans died in captivity at the hands of the Japanese than all US wars from the Revolutionary war to Viet Nam put together including the Civil War.

Read a book called King Rat. While it is considered a novel it is a collection of real life experience of its author James Clavell who was a POW of the Japanese himself.

 

What's interesting is the number of Germans captured that ended up in America as POW's. Over 400,000 of them in something like 700 camps. No point in escaping -- you aren't going to find a way back to Germany. Almost all that tried were captured and returned in a day.

 

There were a few, just a handful that did escape and made it all the way back to the Fatherland.

Back when I used to go the Camp Perry Ohio for the National High Power Rifle Championships the huts we could rent to stay in were for Italian POWs. They were hardly even guarded. Lots were let out on day passes to work for locals doing odd jobs.

 

More Germans stayed in the USA and married America women than escaped back to Germany!

 

There was not a lot left to go home to. My Grandfather was in the Army in Germany at the end of WW1 and brought home a German bride. Funny parts is I know her name very well and in all subsequent census reports he lied about her family name and heritage. And my mother didn't remember her mom ever speaking a word of German.

 

Same was true according to my wife, during WW2 none of the second generation Germans living in southern Illinois ever spoke in German.

Best regards,

Robert

 

My grandmother was part of the Red Cross efforts in France. They had German POWs as work "help" for some of their day-to-day tasks, including (as she remembered) stenciling the walls of the room in which she stayed. Apparently many of the German s in France weren't too interested in going home.

 

For those following this, an update/discussion:

 

Cut to the chase:

Airboss

 

The fact tat guy was the airboss says the problem ran deeper.