B-17 and P-63 lost at Dallas CAF show

Like any accident, there's always more than one reason. So I agree. But he caused it. The pilots were doing their jobs.

 

Except maintaining visual contact with planes they were overtaking

 

That was addressed in the video.

 

If you watch the video they explain that the airboss put them into a position where it was impossible or extremely unlikely to keep visual contact. They were following the instructions of following each other while someone put them into a cross over pattern at the same altitude while turning. There were so many planes in the area and being the B17 was camouflaged flying above the green earth they were relying on instructions / procedures and protocols to maintain safety.

The collision happened because the pilot "overtaking" didn't know he was overtaking. He never saw the B17. He wasn't trying to pass anyone. He was following the line of planes he was told to.

The airboss told the bombers what to do and what line to take. Then he told the fighters what to do and how to turn and descend. They followed instructions and the collision occurred because from those angles and banking, it was impossible for the Air Cobra to know the B17 was there.

In a nutshell the bombers were doing what they were told to do. The fighters were told what they should do, much like air traffic control. It was the airboss who put them into a collision course in a position that neither could effectively see each other --- and that should have never happened.

 

The pilot is ultimately responsible for where the airplane goes. No one else is flying the plane. The pilots #1 job was/is to maintain visual separation, regardless of what the "airboss" is telling them.

 

Sorry but the NTSB disagrees. If you are driving down the street and someone blows through the intersection and hits you, is it your fault you couldn't see the car coming? That's exactly what happened here but the difference is the airboss actually TOLD THEM everything was just fine not long before before the crash.

You have 10 planes in the air all on different courses and speeds in a tight pattern. Its impossible for the pilot to fly and know exactly where every plane is.

How do you visually separate yourself from something YOU CANNOT SEE coming at you from the side? The bombers and the fighters were NOT on the same course. The airboss put them into a cross over pattern at the same altitude which never should have happened.

 

Excellent analogy. The B-17 was not at fault. The "someone blowing through the intersection" was at fault.

 

The B17 blew through the intersection because the airboss told him to.

You should watch the video.

 

Hoover just released his take, including Air Boss responses to post-incident questions and info on a PT-17 giving "ride-along" flights landing during the bomber/fighter show that I hadn't heard about before:



There's also "simulated" pilot views from the P-63 (no source given to who made them) that show the B-17 was not hidden by the airframe for most of the time up to impact, but would not have been easy to see especially if he was fixated on the P-51 in front and trusted the Air Boss' radio comment "B-17 you've got your fighters in front of you off to the left"

 

This was one of the key moments. The airboss asks the B-17 about the fighters but doesn't say anything to the fighters which were going straight at the time and would have had a clear view of the bombers (albiet painted green so would have blended into the ground).
For the P-63 to have avoided the B-17, without any set plan for altitude separation, he'd have had to seen it and adjusted either his flight path or altitude, getting out of the fairly tight "trailing" position to the 2nd P-51.
Which would have meant disregarding the Air Boss' transmissions ("fighters in front of you" and "nice job fighters come on through").

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This is also interesting. The P-63 holds his northern heading longer, not following the P-51s' gentler westward turn which necessitated the harder, later left bank just before impact with the B-17.
Turning earlier like the P-51s may still have put him on a collision course with the B-17 (proabably not though, since his higher speed would have put him ahead by then) but a later collision would have moved the debris field closer to the crowds.

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The Air Boss' reponses to the softball NTSB questions are stunning. If it goes to court you can bet

 

Based on the simulation, I think the P-63 pilot would have been more likely to have seen the B-17 if it had been a natural-metal aircraft.

 

Please tell me how you can maintain visual separation when you can't see an airplane that is UNDER THE NOSE OF THE AIRPLANE THAT YOU ARE FLYING? The P-63 was at the same altitude as the B-17 but in a turn that almost matched that of the B-17 thus keeping the B-17 UNDER THE NOSE OF THE P-63. They herein centric turns, the arc of which crossed or coincided where they hit. i flew in a lot of B-17's and you don't "blow through anything' in one of them. You set it up as you are instructed and lumber along at the altitude assigned. The P-63 followed his altitude assignment as ordered and it sadly was the same as the B-17. The turn is what precipitated this accident. And certainly if the P-63 was lower he would have seen the B-17 ahead of him. Like the old saying, "Been there, done that" BUT I was lucky and happened to see what was under the nose of the PT-19 and i didn't "done that" That's when I quit "dog fighting" with my buddies. Anybody that flies should realize that ALL airplanes have blind spots that can get you.....EVEN SPAM CANS!

 

Bob - if the flight tracks posted above that I clipped from Hoover's video are accurate the P-63 wasn't "in a turn" for most of time before impact.
I can imagine the Airboss' defense claiming the P-63 pilot SHOULD have seen and avoided the B-17, even if it's color scheme blended into the ground, he was following (confusing) radio instructions, and there apparently wasn't any any semblance of ground rehersal or clear deconfliction plan.

"The P-63 followed his altitude assignment as ordered and it sadly was the same as the B-17."

Nothing I've seen indicates there were any "altitude assignments".
In response to NTSB questions the Airboss actually said that he doesn't assign altitudes because he thinks it's too dangerous having pilots check their altimeter.

 

The P-63 is in a left bank as he is overtaking the B-17. To me, that is a left turn.

 

So if you had "done that", how would fault be assigned? Fate, the other guy, you, or ???

 

Neither of us should have been chasing each other around. Two reckless and foolish kids that woke up in time.