Back to the 360 Challenge v. Stradale issue....

You are oversimplifying an actually complicated system – it is not only the coefficient of friction of the tire but also down force and car weight etc. – however if the tire/rode contact is broken bigger brake disks will have no impact - as heneral explanation I agree

However larger brake disks have an effect besides heat dissipation on the race track – they are usually more responsive (leverage) which allows to initiate the initial weight transfer quicker and modulate the brake force better in the following braking period. Humans also associate braking with force on the brake pedal and not the travel of the pedal again something that can be easier achieved with larger disk.

 

Yes, I was oversimplifying it, but the downforce car weight etc you refer to are all party of the tyre grip, and I would have thought goes without saying. The rest you refer to is only consequential on a race track. There's just NO way that through the seat of your pants the braking performance of a car is transformed for one stop by huge or "better" brakes.

 

If we're talking about 70-0 tests, then I agree... that's a test of tires and balance in modern sportscars, not at all of brakes.

However, on the track, big brakes matter for more than just fade reasons. The less force required on the brakes to get to the threshold of the tires, the easier it is to modulate and control the braking. Braking on a track isn't about 70-0, its about putting down exactly the amount of braking you want to as fast as you can... requires a delicate touch and lots of modulation... carefully controlling weight transfer more so than speed.

Imagine you're trying to sink a 12-foot putt... you aren't allowed to use your normal putter... you can choose an ultra-light putter or a 20-pound one... which do you choose?


For the track, bigger and better brakes are indeed a win... maybe not a huge win, but a win. For the street, its absolutely irrelevant other than pedal effort... but its that lack of pedal effort that gets those "damn it stops fast" comments... what they mean is, "it stopped fast even when I pressed gently".

 

Where are our European friends this weekend? At the track, I hope. I'm dying to know what the Stradale Owners Manual has for curb weight!! [impatience showing]

 

Exactly right. I have had people drive my 355CH on the ROAD and rave about how good the brakes are (just because no pedal pressure is required to put your head through the windscreen!). It's all about feel and perception. Reality has nothing to do with it.

 

8650rpm

 

OK.

Sorry to keep you waiting Brian.
I'll try not to let it happen again.


European manual states

CS curb Weight as 2844lb (1290Kg).

Wazza

 

See that it doesn't!

Mucho gracias. So, to complete out the summarization:

Weight from -- Modena -- Stradale -- Delta
Marketing -- 3064lb -- 2822lb -- 242lb
Euro OM ---- 3086lb -- 2844lb -- 242lb
U.S. OM ---- 3240lb -- 2998lb -- 242lb

So, in Ferrari's defense, I'd wager the marketing numbers are from whatever country has the lightest car (fewest emissions and safety requirements). European cars get an extra 22lb of stuff; US gets an extra... *cough*... 176lb of stuff. That raises an interesting question, but I'll drop that in another thread... click here.

Then, of course, there's the reality:

Weight from -- Modena -- Stradale -- Delta
Marketing -- 3064lb -- 2822lb -- 242lb
Euro OM ---- 3086lb -- 2844lb -- 242lb
U.S. OM ---- 3240lb -- 2998lb -- 242lb
U.S. Actual - ????lb -- 3096lb

The Stradale being weighed there has leather... but that couldn't be more than about half the 98lb delta, could it? What else? Thoughts?

 

Gut the doors, and completely remove the A/C, this will remove right at 200 pounds.

 

Need a mig welder to cut the reinforcement beams. (Not a tough job).
THere's also ... a/c , heater core and all the blower motors, winshield waher fluid res., airbag and srs computer, cats, all un-neccessary heat shilelding, plastic covers, vents,etc etc etc... Brian, I'll come out for a couple days, and we'll get your 360CS below 2800lbs...

 

no - I don't have leather seats! - only extras: fire ext.

 

I will try and get mt CS weighed.
Although i'm not sure where yet.
Any thoughts from the UK boys ??.

Extra weights would be HiFi/Speakers, Rollbar, Extguisher.
No leather, carpets or CD changer.

Will get back later.

Wazza

 

I live in Texas... the a/c is worth its weight in gold!
Before I start eliminating such things, I want to get rid of the stuff that they don't even bother putting in a European car... if I can identify what that is.

Gutting the doors and putting in some light weight crank-down lexan windows sounds like a good idea. I just wish that was the other option (rather than the fixed Lexan windows)... I suppose someone could fabricate what I want.

Windshield washer fluid reservior? That's what ... 1/4 pound empty and 3 pounds full?? We're talking about 150 pounds of nonsense that's been added somewhere... surely some reinforcement bars in the door don't weight that.

 

If you are willing to gut the doors, but not the AC, then I can suggest that you remove the front and rear facias and remove all the heavy USA bumper stuff, fabricate up some aluminum just strong enough to hold the bumpers on. Might get 125 pounds here.

 

Hello, I'm fairly certain that lexan is not good for 'crank-down' window applications. It scratches easily and is not really suitable for it, that's why all you ever see it used for is small sliding windows.

 

“A particularly advanced construction technology was adopted for the car's underbody. This involves pre-preg woven carbon-fibre cloth cured in autoclaves under vacuum to get the necessary rigidity, simultaneously leading to a 50% reduction in the weight of the underbody panels.”

This is from a description of the Ferrari owners site – now when I look underneath my car I see only the underbody material used for the Modena!?*&^%$##@@!@#$%$

The Modena under tray is bloody heavy and could account for a lot of weight – a carbon fiber version would be much lighter besides the $$$$ it would cost

Wazza could you pls check your under tray – is it carbon fiber?

 

My records say something slightly different: "this involves impregnating the resin with multi-axial carbon fibres in a vacuum in order to obtain the necessary rigidity, but which simultaneously leads to a 50% reduction in the weight of the floorplan itself"

My take on this is that the multi-axial carbon fibres are woven together into a rigid sheet and serve to stiffen the floorplan, are used as a reinforcement within the plastic and are not visible. This may allow for thinner plastic panels which would account for a reduction in weight.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Paul

 

Thomas, Brian,

What are you guys like !.

Get it weighed, Get the noise checked.

Now you want me to get on the floor and grovel under the car.

Anything else before I rush off and do that straight away !!!!



Wazza
(humbly yours)