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bad azzz boxer part III

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by riverflyer, Apr 29, 2016.

  1. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
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    #1 riverflyer, Apr 29, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/boxers-tr-m/175398-bad-azz-boxer-part-2-a.html

    Well, here we go one last time. My experience with this car so far has been; briefly exhilarating, briefly a seemingly solid idea, but thoroughly frustrating, thoroughly overpriced and an absolutely questionable idea!!
    Its been more like the "Money Pit" with Tom Hanks and Shelley Long than the "Man and LeMans" with Steve McQueen!. My shop experiences ranged from ok to very unsatisfactory. But I always felt that I could not surrender the project, although in hindsight......;O
    Anyway, the real issue was the turbo's and their application. Just too complicated and too much heat. I will say, when it was running right, O my word what a blast. At 6lbs boost the thing was a rocket and definitely brought major grins.

    I will also say, again, avoid at all costs "one off" Ferrari fabrication. Run, run, run.

    I had decided to remove the turbos etc and called Paul Newman, our famed Boxer guru, for some advice and counsel. One thing led to another and instead of being bummed and frustrated, other options opened and things began to gel in a positive and exciting direction.

    I will contribute to this thread but am mostly turning it over to Paul and his extensive 12 cyl expertise. Take it away my friend and lets do this finally and absolutely.
     
  2. gt4me

    gt4me F1 Veteran

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    Look forward to progress.
     
  3. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #3 Newman, May 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I was surprised to get the email from John but was happy to give advice! I remember the forza article prior to John's ownership and then when John bought the car. We talked a lot about what to do with the car but I knew simplifying the car was the best route for both bang for his buck and having a reliable car to enjoy.

    When John and I first spoke, the engine had been removed and placed on a pallet because its internally damaged and the project was on hold. I asked him to place it back in the chassis and the loose parts in the trunk so the car could be shipped complete then I lifted the engine back out last week.
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  4. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #4 Newman, May 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Planning on cleaning up some of the chips and incorrectly painted areas. Things like the flaking paint in the air intake louvers and the areas that should be blacked out.

    I noticed the center louver assembly has been removed, modified and turned around. At first I thought it was just in backwards but its been cut and reworked unfortunately. I can only assume it was done to introduce more air into the engine bay but I dont think it really did anything. The three main rows should all be angled to the rear and the 2 square inlet louvers angled to the front.
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  5. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #5 Newman, May 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Some of the modifications Ill be undoing mostly consists of removing items that dont belong then wash and painting the frame.

    One modification we will improve on is the additional aluminum strips riveted onto the tops of both rear inner fenders. The upper frame brace ws cut out, moved inboard a couple of inches and the inner fender lip was cut off. We're going to leave the frame in its altered condition and repair the inner fenders to look stock but still accept the large wide wheels.

    Compare the restored one as a reference to Johns relocated example and the aluminum panel used to bridge the gap. When we're done, the inner will look stock but be subtly wider.
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  6. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #6 Newman, May 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #7 Newman, May 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. jjeffries

    jjeffries Karting

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    Paul, your remarkable Flat-12 Centre of Excellence in Ontario never ceases to astound me. The cars are finding their way "home" to you for the best possible attention. All good! John in CT
     
  9. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Thanks John, sure is fun having them here!
     
  10. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #10 Newman, May 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Removing some of the unwanted items in preparation for some black paint and harness clean up.

    Lower center of rear clam and rear grill is unfortunate. It was clearanced in the past for something turbo related I assume. The current turbo set up didn't seem to come close to it.

    The lack of aluminum filler strips shows the upper brace (full of holes) that was moved away from the inner fended and the fender lip that hangs down into the wheel well was cut off. The original engine bay panels had the tops cut off as well.
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  11. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #11 Newman, May 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    We're going to be addressing some cosmetic issues but one in particular is more than cosmetic.

    The rear clam center support was cut out and now the clam flexes a lot in the middle to the point it put a buckle in the skin. I took a video of the flex but cant post here, not a big deal but we should replace the missing piece.

    Notice the buckle is where the steel structure is missing and the aluminum sheet begins.
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  12. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #12 Newman, May 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Because the twin turbo set up has ended up in an engine failure a couple of times now I took a close look at the fuel system.

    The small supply lines combined with the tight 90's out of the pumps made me wonder if the car was starving. The inlet side fuel filters for a 76 volare slant six may not help flow either but I haven't tested nor can I test for a pressure drop under full load at this point.

    Considering the engine was making over 1100hp, 550hp per bank I would think larger than 5/16" ID would be needed. The new engine will only produce roughly 225HP per bank so the supply may be adequate which Ill verify.
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  13. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    those fuel pumps are looking like bosch parts. do you have a parts number? then I may have a look how much they would deliver at what pressure
    I think they cannot deliver so much fuel as the engine needs with 1100 hp.
    that is why I put in my TR 2 fuel pumps with much higher fuel transportation
     
  14. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    They are bosch pumps like the OEM injected car pumps. They can support a 512M engine which is what I had on the previous M engine conversion I did. The supply line size is my biggest concern. Inlet size from the tank pipes is my other.
     
  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    the inlet from the tanks to the pumps has 14 mm diameter, this also is good for my
    competition

    the lines from the pumps to the rails I made in 10 mm and have no problem because my pumps deliver more than double that the original with the same pressure. but for the original or up to 600 hp I see no problem with 8 mm lines
     
  16. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #16 Newman, May 9, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Heat exchanger, plumbing and Motec engine management removed.

    Front bumper is an injected version with a modified carb'ed grill. The injected opening is 10mm smaller in height vs the carb'd opening. Sadly someone cut pieces out of the grill slats for whatever reason. Bumper is typical BB in the scuff department.
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  17. kiesan

    kiesan Formula 3
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    So strange how things or at least our perspective changes over time. I remember reading the Forza article on this car like yesterday. At the time it made me go to my garage and feel bad about my bonestock/mint 328GTB with 14k miles. This BB was the best car ever made in the history of the universe as far as I was concerned!

    Seeing it now the phrase "Never meet your heroes" keeps coming to mind and damn I sure miss my 328. Obviously once Newman is done with his magic it will be glorious once again.

    What are the plans for the removed TT Testarossa mill?
     
  18. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    I am a little disappointed seeing how things were carried out as well but it'll be heading back closer to stock which is a good thing.

    The left-overs will be up for grabs.
     
  19. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Paul, were you able to drive the car around the block to see what 1,000 hp felt like in the car?

    Looks like a nice project !
     
  20. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    No, the engine went from 1100 to 100HP before it came here.
     
  21. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #21 Newman, May 10, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Degreased the engine bay because we're going to address some paint problems and numerous holes in the structure before dropping the new M engine in.

    The exterior has some issues as well so we're deciding how to deal with those.

    Yellow paint marker is water based so it washes off

    The roof has solvent pop from not enough time between coats.

    Love the silicone job around the windshield trim!

    Dark spots in red is primer bleeding through from a previous blow-in.
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  22. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie
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    Very interesting thread, I'll be watching!

    Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
     
  23. MobileJay

    MobileJay Formula 3

    Sep 9, 2006
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    John, I don't know what to say! I can not believe the issues you have had with this car and I feel partially to blame haha. However seeing the pictures does bring back good memories for me. I was thinking about you and the car last couple of weeks when Ferrari of Houston sent me one to work on so I checked in the section and found your progress. Now it sounds like you are in the home stretch...sort of. I can't wait to hear that you have the car back and are able to enjoy the hell out of it! Looking forward to seeing the progress.
     
  24. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    Neat project.

    That is one awfully pretty Motec ECU that was disconnected. Whatcha doin with it now
     
  25. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie

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    I still have a copy of that Forza you refer to. I was always hoping we could get a "part II, revisited" story. Maybe the car is finally in the right hands to complete that circle!!
     

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