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Battery shut down issues

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Street&Track, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. Street&Track

    Street&Track Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    662
    #1 Street&Track, Jul 23, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
    I have been on F-chat since the beginning of the 458 thread, actually longer but I digress.......

    I have read various battery issues in various 458 threads and so I thought that I was taking all the precautions to avoid the dead battery syndrome.

    But this morning I went to get the car out and low and behold it came alive when I turned the key.......but it would not engage the starter when I hit the start engine button and in fact when I would hit the start engine button other electronics like the fan for the A/C would drop to zero.

    The lights come on, all the dash screens come on, everything seems to have power but the start engine button will not engage the starter.

    Now this after I always turned everything off before shutting down, at least I think I did:)

    And always plugging the battery conditioner in after every drive. I also put the car in a carcapsule after every use.....but that is another story:)

    Anyway, I started to look at the battery as the culprit because when I opened the passenger door to start the process of taking the battery door off. I heard the DVD player changing DVDs. And this was without the key in the ignition and should not be happening.

    So although I have been pretty religious as too shutting the radio off after driving the 458, this last time I was listening to the DVD player when I shut it down, at least I thought I did.

    So maybe this is associated with earlier reports that the cars media player does not shut off when it is left running and the car is shut down. Just guessing here.

    On to putting the charger on the car. I first grabbed the manual and looked up the battery. Page 214, seemed simple enough, velcro door under the passenger foot well. There is an illustration in the manual that shows the battery and the locked down bar, which you are suppose to remove by two screws, but when I opened the door, I was able to plug the postive battery clamp on to the positive terminal of the Ferrari battery with no problem. (Yeah, this thing has a giant Genuine Ferrari Battery:);) )

    The negative terminal was a whole other issue. You can't get the negative charger cable on to the negative terminal. It is blocked by a couple of things. So you have to first undo the upper section of the velcro door by taking two allen head screws out and then push it up where it does not want to go. Then you have to take the securing bar out which is two more allen head screws of a different size no less.

    Then you can get to the negative terminal. I would recommend that you have your dealer install a negative terminal extension so you can get a charger or jump starter on to it in case of an emergency. Otherwise you are going to need a flashlight and two different allen heads and a fresh set of clothes to get at the negative terminal.

    It is charging now, with a new kind of charger that I found at NAPA, this thing charges all kinds of batteries, GEL, AGM, Deep Cycle and can do it with multiple charging rates while at the same time telling the charge capacity of your battery, anyway hopefully it will go back to full charge, start and run with no issues and I can then work on figuring out what the hell happened.

    Like I said, I was aware of issues with the battery and I thought I was taking every precaution, but either I messed up or there is something else going on here.

    The car was a February build that I got in late March, it has three track days on it and 1900 miles trouble free miles, so it was suppose to have all the latest stuff on it as of March. Apparently the firmware update did not fix the issue with the battery draining after turning the car off. At least that is what I am guessing.

    Anyway, thought some of you could benefit from the experience of trying to charge the battery via the battery access door in the passenger footwell. Trust me if you ever have to jump start a 458 you will wish you had a negative terminal extension put on so you can easily access it like you can the positive terminal:)


    I will give an update later as to what happened with the charging process.......

    Like I said,
     
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  3. nizam

    nizam Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jul 9, 2004
    1,556
    San Jose, CA
    Full Name:
    Ni Zam
    I'd love to read your observations once your battery is fully charged. Yes, it's a bear to get to the negative terminal.
     
  4. Street&Track

    Street&Track Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    662
    Can anyone confirm that the Genuine Ferrari battery in the 458 is an AGM battery?
     
  5. Street&Track

    Street&Track Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    662
    Okay, I am officially stumped. I put an AGM charger on the battery and it supposedly charged all the way up to full.

    The results are no different. I put the key in and all the electronics and lights come on as they should, but when I hit the starter button it just does one click and thats it.

    It actually acts like the battery conditioner is still connected, but of course it is not connected, so I am not sure that the built in switch can go awry.

    Looks like I will have to take her back to Chicago this week.

    Unfortunately, the hard part will be getting her out of the garage and in to the trailer without starting her up, in 100 degree heat.........bummer.
     
  6. Street&Track

    Street&Track Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    662
    Forgot too mention the dealer is about 200 miles away, so getting it in is an ordeal.
     
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  8. scud

    scud F1 World Champ

    Oct 2, 2004
    11,532
    Had mine at the dealer on Wednesday under a campaign, they placed a larger amp fuse in the car, a few cars wouldn't start due to a blown fuse.

    Not sure if this relates to you.
     
  9. Street&Track

    Street&Track Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    662
    Scud,

    Thanks, that is more info that I can give to the dealer.

    Based on my symptoms and what others have experienced, I am guessing that one of the fuses on top of the battery has an issue. The question is whether I can replace it, or whether I have to lug the Italia 200 miles to have the dealer do it.

    Thanks I appreciate the information.

    This actually sounds and acts just like Johns930 problem which was a fuse.
     
  10. ReinD

    ReinD Formula Junior

    Sep 16, 2010
    464
    I guess you can count your blessings that you weren't in the middle of nowhere and out of cell phone range. Now that would be an ordeal. ;)
     
  11. Street&Track

    Street&Track Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    662
    Yes, I was thinking of that exact scenario. What if the fuse blew when I was out with the car somewhere. I wish they would have let me know about the campaign, I would have had it in to the dealer, pronto.

    Truth be told it was actually scheduled to be in the dealership on Thursday, but for convenience sake I moved the date to early August.

    Now am I going to have to figure out how to get it in neutral and get it to the trailer. I read in another thread that there is a special tool to get it in to neutral or car wash mode, wonder what that tool is like:)
     
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  13. ReinD

    ReinD Formula Junior

    Sep 16, 2010
    464
    Try not to worry too much about all of this until you've had a chance to talk to the service department and a mechanic. They may have a simpler solution to some of the issues you are raising.
     
  14. fuse

    fuse Formula Junior

    Aug 11, 2004
    340
    I have not use the trickle charger that came with my 458. I’ve let it gone 3 weeks and it starts fine.

    I did have a battery problem once, where it ran completely dead. I was in the car loading about 8 more gb of music on a tuesday night, planning for a long weekend drive. I was listening to music while it was loading for the duration, not sure how long. Once done, I turned the car off, the music stopped, shut the door and went to sleep. Come friday, the battery was completely dead. Key turned, no sign of power at all. I had a Battery Tender handy as my Stradale didn’t come with a trickle charger, so the dealer installed a Battery Tender plug behind driver side seat. I connected the Battery Tender to the battery directly, and by saturday morning, the car started fine.

    I took it to the dealer to check it out, as they were concerned about the fuse on top of the battery, indicating that it was common to blow that fuse. They checked and the fuse was fine. Since then, the battery has been fine as it did before.

    I do think that there is an issue with the stereo not shutting off completely, draining the battery.
     
  15. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,847
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    DJS
    Joe, let me know if you need any help. I would also think they would come down to get her under Ferrari Road Side Service.
     
  16. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
    1,921
    I don't understand the fixation about getting access to the negative terminal of the battery...
    or creating an extension for the negative terminal... it is not necessary... as with any installed auto battery the recommended connection procedure ( charger ) is positive to battery terminal and negative to anything properly connected to chasis. It may be neater to have a "Battery Tender" type of charger permanently installed to take care of any number of things that require power while the ignition is off. Many electronics are connected unswitched to the battery to maintain their memory functions. Infrequent and short use of the car may not put a full enough charge into an already "low" battery. The "Battery Tender" chargers have been working well for me for cars not used daily... cars always ready to start and no worn out batteries from sitting around without a charge.
     
  17. Street&Track

    Street&Track Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    662
    #14 Street&Track, Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
    Okay the mystery deepens. Dealer and I both thought it was the fuse that happens to have a campaign bulletin against it that calls for replacing the fuse.

    So the transport guy, who is a great guy by the way, drove 3 1/2 hours to my house and installed the new fuse. Car still won't start. So at this point we have to somehow get the car in neutral and push or pull it from the house to the car hauler truck. So as I mentioned before, all the electronics seem to work. Lights, radio, AC, everything. But it will not go in to neutral or disengage the parking brake. So I try to open the front hood and interestingly enough the front hood release will not work. Now I know that if the front hood is open the car will not start, so it may be that this is all somehow related, at least I hope so:)

    Anyway, we used the manual pull switch to open the front bonnet and then we got the funky tool out to put the car in neutral and disengage the parking brake. We then were able to get the car out of the garage and in to the car hauler truck. Not sure if the front bonnet switch is fused or not. My only hope is that it is a failed micro switch and the car will be back and good as new and soon.

    I should know more tomorrow or Wednesday when the technicians have had a chance to look the car over. For those that are mildly interested in the outcome, hopefully we will know soon what that is. For others, nevermind, nothing to see here, move along:):)
     
  18. Rcktrod

    Rcktrod F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2010
    3,946
    USA
    Yikes, I'm really curious what happened. Hate to think this could happen on a long drive or weekend trip.
     
  19. SL%%

    SL%% Formula Junior

    Feb 25, 2008
    290
    I commend you on how you handled things because most likely, a big chance that I would be really pissed by this point.
     
  20. Street&Track

    Street&Track Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    662
    Yes, that is kind of what I was thinking. Good thing it happened in my garage. If I had been on a trip it would have been a mess. I would have had to disengage my wife and then disengage the car, one would have been much tougher than the other:)

    At least now, I know how to engage neutral manually and I can disengage the parking break manually. Not something I would want to try without having some one show me the tools and how they work. As for disengaging the wife, I am afraid these tools would have no effect:)
     
  21. Street&Track

    Street&Track Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    662
    Thanks, actually it was kind of humorous. I mean what are you going to do?

    We first tried pushing the car, three guys pushing the car with no power steering in 90 degree heat up a slight incline. It took all I had to just turn the steering wheel. So off to plan B, I got one of our Kawasaki mules with 4-wheel drive and hooked up a tow strap to the tow ring on the 458.

    Then we towed the 458 the long way around my wife's garden which houses Peacocks. The peacocks started going nuts as we went my the aviary, they are really loud birds and then their screaming started freaking out the deer in the deer pen which we also had to tow the car by. It had to look pretty funny, birds screaming, deer running in all directions, fortunately no one can see inside the property so it was kind of a private joke. I just hope the driver from Continental comes back:)

    Luckily we didn't have to tow it by the Bobcat or the Coyote pens, don't ask:)
     
  22. MikeS

    MikeS Karting

    Nov 21, 2003
    131
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Mike S
    I am probably missing too many symptoms but for what it is worth:
    My 458 had a no crank condition last August, 3 weeks after delivery. No early warning signs. Car had been used and plugged into the maintainer. Dealer used a booster box to get it out of my garage and onto the truck. Diagnosis was bad battery, dead cell. Had all of your symptoms but for the front hood failing to open, not sure I get that. Just had a first service done and they changed the battery fuse and updated software, part of which was shutdown process of dash electronics.

    Sorry to hear of your troubles but your dealer should be able to square this away quickly.

    I will say this stuff is why I am not a fan of the electronic parking brake as well as the challenge of getting a dead car into neutral so it can be moved.
     
  23. Street&Track

    Street&Track Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    662
    Mike,

    Yes I remembered your ordeal. I mentioned that to Continental as a possibility, but just to be sure I charged the battery up and then I hooked up a brand new fully charged Odyssey AGM battery the kind I used with my 430 and it didn't make any difference.

    In fact the left hand dash screen just said, "Total Electrical Failure, Return to Dealer" after I hooked up the Odyssey.

    In the end that is what we did:)
     
  24. MikeS

    MikeS Karting

    Nov 21, 2003
    131
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Mike S
    Thought I would throw it out there, sorry it appears to be more complex. I am sure Continental will figure it out and you will be tearing it up once again.

    Good luck !
     
  25. ReinD

    ReinD Formula Junior

    Sep 16, 2010
    464
    I'm glad someone came out to the house vice you trying to do this all by yourself. :)
     
  26. Rcktrod

    Rcktrod F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2010
    3,946
    USA
    LOL, I hear that....a disengaged wife is called divorce, I think.
     
  27. Rcktrod

    Rcktrod F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2010
    3,946
    USA
    Seriously, you couldn't make this stuff up. I agree, you have a great temperament.
     
  28. ReinD

    ReinD Formula Junior

    Sep 16, 2010
    464
    It's Wednesday! Any news?!! The suspense is killing me!
     

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