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BB512 engine out, and then some...

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by John B, Apr 25, 2020.

  1. John B

    John B Formula 3
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    I'm having the engine out service done on my BB512. We're replacing the belts, adjusting the valves, replacing all hoses and the fuel pumps. At the same time, we're replacing all the suspension bushings and rebuilding the shocks (if they need it). We're cleaning everything up while we're at it with anodizing, paint, and new fasteners. These pics are after steam cleaning, but before painting and anodizing. Suspension is still on. I love the process


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  2. Ludwig

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    It starts with "i need to replace belts and do major service" and then the infamous mind set of " well, I've gone this far why not take care of ................"
    I ended with complete restoration of virtually everything down to frame.

    Overall kind of fun.
    BTW, are you going to upgrade the diff?
     
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  3. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Good question I have two in stock!
     
  4. John B

    John B Formula 3
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    Exactly... I don't want to go too crazy, but I love the car and plan to keep it for a long time so there is a fair amount of "while it's this far apart" going on.
    The bearing in the diff was a little scored so we're replacing that. It was going to be a problem sooner or later.
     
  5. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Are you replacing the diff carrier or the exhaust valves?

    When I yanked the motor to do the diff carrier and so much more, I was talked out of replacing the exhaust valves but wish I had changed them.

    Few of us are going out for a drive tomorrow, I'm nicknaming it "The Boxer Rebellion"
     
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  6. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Photos of the Boxer Rebellion please.
     
  7. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Not to derail Johns thread, We got a non predicted downpour early in the morning and postponed til later this week. Very disapointing

    I will post a new thread after we get it in.
     
  8. John B

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    The diff carrier and the ring and pinion look fine, so we just replaced the diff bearing. We didn't take the heads off so the exhaust valves were not replaced. Why? I know the 308's had problems with the sodium-filled exhaust valves, but I haven't heard of that in a Boxer.
     
  9. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Unfortunately, boxers have them as well. I know when Buzz from NYC had a service last year and he had a couple exhaust valves with the heads broken off - there is a thread he wrote about it. Newman probably has some more stats on them than anecdotal evidence of failure.

    It is not something which is highly recognized. For a long term owner who is going to be enjoying the car it is probably a good thing to have resolved as is the diff carrier. For peace-of-mind JMO.
     
  10. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day John,

    You need to do what you deem best, however, as dwhite mentioned, exhaust valve failures also happen on Boxers and there has been a few threads about this sad and tragic event. Perhaps you do not see or hear about it as often, as Boxers were made in lower production numbers than 308s, but also were not driven as much. Form my observation it would seem that the original exhaust valves had low infant mortality and then the probability of failure increases dramatically if the valves were reused after some (recent) cylinder head work. I have never read any real analysis as to the reason for these failures, but my "feeling" is that it has to the head work (new/different seats, recutting of the seats/valves, etc) causing some level heat dissipation/gradient change across the headvalve/valve stem stimulating a weak spot between the valve head and steam. This all conjecture on my part, but I had an exhaust valve failure on my old 308GT4 (see pics) and I find it suspicious that it occurred on a very cold Autumn morning (-10C) as the engine was warming up during a light early morning freeway drive. The results of the failure were nasty, as the broken valve head jammed into the piston which knackered the timing belt... and so the remaining 3 cylinders also suffered damage. That being said I have been rolling the dice on my Boxer (heads have never been rebuilt...so some comfort here), however, the next engine out will have the heads rebuilt along with replacing the exhaust valves. The time and effort to do it then will be quite reasonable and I think prudent to do. In fact I will be doing the same on my 365 (GT4 2+2) as a preventative, as there is definitely some anecdotal evidence that the valves become brittle over time with lack of use (my 365 has sat for about 25+ years).

    Cheers,

    Sam

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  11. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    beautiful part for the office desk ;)
     
  12. John B

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    Ughh...
    I'm going to have to sleep with the light on now.
     
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  13. John B

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    I heard back from the prior owner that had rebuilt the engine before I bought the car. He did replace the valves with stainless steel valves. Phew! Now I can sleep again at night.
    I'm giving serious thought to the diff though. I appreciate the input.
     
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  14. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Romano,

    It is and has been for the last 30+ years ... It is certainly a conversation piece, albeit, and expensive one.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    what is albeit? you mean german"arbeit"? so a lot of work?
     
  16. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie


    Albeit= although; having said that.

    He means the diff makes a nice desk ornament, although it comes at a high cost.
     
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  17. John B

    John B Formula 3
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    #17 John B, May 6, 2020
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
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    I'm going with one of Paul's diff carriers. I drive the car hard and don't want that hanging over my head every time I step on the gas hard (or release it). These are seriously solid looking pieces! They look like components to a nuclear reactor. Thanks guys for talking me into doing the right thing.
     
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  18. PaulK

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    Why would valves become brittle with lack of use?
     
  19. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Paul,

    Like I said... I have never seen any detailed analysis as to what is the definite cause of these failures and so your guess is as good as mine. However, there has been a number of posts, discussions with others, etc that found valve heads break when examined during preventative head work. If these cases were to be taken at face value then it would have to be somehow related to the sodium within the valve (e.g. I have seen no reports or posts of this happening with non sodium filled valves)... so does sodium react and/or breakdown the valve material over time as it sits? Who knows... but for me, I do not want to take the risk and will be replacing my sodium filled valves on my 365 and on my next 512 engine out service. To others, do as you see best.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  20. PaulK

    PaulK F1 Rookie
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    Thank you Sam. I suppose like anything else in Ferrari land, you have to use them or they start to go bad.
     
  21. Ludwig

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  22. Ludwig

    Ludwig Formula Junior
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    Looking great!
     
  23. John B

    John B Formula 3
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  24. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

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    Frank's ship still does nice work

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