What is the best fuel pump for my carbureted 1976 308? Thanks steve
You must have missed this! Rob just updated his thread on the Hardi pump https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/bcd-corona-carb-fuel-pump-replacement-hardi-18812.528946/
Do a search using "Pierburg", "Hardi", and/or "Facet" for many prior threads. (IMO, disabling the fuel return to accommodate the fuel pump is a poor trade-off, and would go with a rotary vane style fuel pump like the original Corona.)
I have always used Facet pumps in my other Ferrari, so it's doubtful I would change to something else, especially if it required modifications. steve
I fitted a Hardi 18812 and it ticks away when you switch on the ignition - but it's not the end of the world and once the engine is running it can't be heard. I am reluctant to seal off the fuel return as my understanding was that the circulation is to keep the fuel cool?
If your Hardi pump does not have the return sealed it WILL FAIL prematurely. I too was hesitant to plug the return line and then felt like a fool for not having done it sooner. The pump is SILENT and there are no drivability issues of any kind.
Yes, to keep the fuel in the lines cooler, but also to work with an unswitched (quiet ) rotary vane fuel pump that is designed, and intended, to run continuously. I believe the Hardi 18812 is a solenoid-driven diaphragm style pump and has internal switch contacts that cycle it on/off (so having a fuel return operates those contacts more often -- although I'm a bit surprised that the OP had any serious life problem, and think Hardi may have just used that as an excuse) -- but don't know all of that for sure. If you've got the Hardi 18812 (with the proper return in place) you can be another data point for us -- how many miles/years so far?
Maybe, I've got this all wrong, but I find the Ratatat and the modest hammering of the pump to be reassuring and part of the character of the car. If I want a silent fuel pump, I'll jump in my wife's Toyota. steve
And your data set/information for this is? I see no information in the (admittedly limited) Hardi 18812 data sheet that continuous operation is prohibited, and having the return still keeps the pump well within its operating specifications. I could see something like a 50% reduction in life based on the higher number of switch contact cycles, but think this would still be a significant lifetime.
I wonder what Hardi's internal pressure limit might be when it decides to regulate at that set psi. The 18812 says up to 5psi which seems a bit high but they seem to be working fine as I've installed a couple. One application required two pumps due to fuel demands for this particular engine (350hp+). from another website: Unlike mechanical fuel pump all electrical Hardi fuel pumps feature a separate drive (an electric motor or a solenoid), which ensures a function of the pump independently from the engine. All Hardi petrol pumps have a control concept, in which the output of the pump relates directly to the consumption of the engine. This means that with high consumption it pumps quickly, with low consumption pumps slowly or even stops, to save power. This is made possible by a flexible stroke frequency. All Hardi pumps are self-priming and suppressed . They are suitable for almost any type of liquid fuels: Super, gasoline, diesel, and even for methanol- and ethanol-containing fuels. The working range is from -40 °C to +80 °C. The pumps are maintenance-free, protected against corrosion and suitable for any type of engine.
Hardi pumps are sold as an alternative to SU pumps for MGB. Both chatter till the carb float bowl is full and then “shut down”. Diaphragm type So a fuel return system would have it pumping continuously. Given the mileages we do I would think other issues would manifest themselves before it failed.
I'm pretty sure my fuel pump has died. I assume they can fail intermittently, but can they fail to pump fuel even though you can hear them making noise? If so, I believe that's what's happening; it's probably failing intermittently. However, it does seem like if you can hear it it's working. I don't know enough about the pumps to understand if the inner workings could be failing, despite the fact that you can hear it. Any thoughts ? thanks, steve ADD: I decided to go with the Facet pump as I've used them on other Ferraris for more than 20 years, and with great success. Readily available (Amazon, even!), inexpensive for a Ferrari part ,and no re-plumbing of anything. Steve.
Sure, the mechanical thing meant to move the thing meant to move the fuel can still work, but if the thing meant to move the fuel is bad (leaking diaphragm, bad vanes, etc.) = no, or low, fuel delivery. However, you've never described your symptom, and I would say that this is more the unusual situation (i.e., a noise-making fuel pump is usually a working fuel pump). Same here, but most of the Facet pumps have a little higher output pressure than the stock spec (say 7 psi vs the stock 3.5 to 5 psi spec). Worked fine for me on my ex-308 for about 20K miles, but don't know, if longer term, it has an issue.
First, the easy one: I was taught by Dyke Ridgley that Webers like 4 to 5 psi and the new gold Facet pump that I ordered is just that: 4 1/2 to 5 psi. OK, you wanna know what happened? Here's a C&P I got in it to drive it for the first time since I replaced the fuel filter and the "ignition control" relay. It started great but refused to idle at anything less than 2000. On rapid acceleration I also noted it was bogging down a bit. It seemed to be running well otherwise but then I pulled up to a light and it died, but restarted quickly. I drove about another 1/4 mile and it completely died and I coasted to a stop. I admit I was ignorant and did not have my wits about me to see if the fuel pump was running. So, I don't know that. The car would not start, though it cranked perfectly. I sprayed some ether in the venturis and the car started and ran for about three seconds then died again. I tried again with the ether with the same results. The fuel gauge raise 1/2, and there's no reason to think it's inaccurate. For what it's worth, my theory is that either the fuel pump is dead or when my friend replaced the fuel filter, he dislodged or loosened somehow, one of the fuel pump wires. Though I have never known anyone who had this problem, I suppose that the screen that comes immediately off the tank could be full of junk. In the rear most storage compartment, you will find all four knurled air clear hold down nuts and the lid to the air cleaner as well. Towed home, and sat cold for 48 hrs. Then I made numerous attempts to start the car with no success. About when we were ready to throw in the towel, I turned the ignition key to the run position and again you could hear the FP. The mechanic who’s helping me was watching the accelerator pumps for signs of life. During the initial sequence, he could see nothing coming from the nozzles, and then, as he watched, began to spurt from the carburetors in an uneven sequence and certainly not simultaneously. At that point, he said, now try to start the car and it did start. and ran. (ironically and inexplicably, it idled nicely at 1000 as it's supposed to) When he was underneath the car, looking at the fuel pump to find the part number which incidentally, it doesn't have he noted that all the wires were snug and tight, and no hoses were kicked and look good in fact. Though it's probably not worth much. Here's a picture of the fuel pump and it does look pretty old and certainly not anything that is currently available. As best I can tell there is no fuel pump relay, but there is a fuse, which obviously must be intact or the pump wouldn't be working at all. So there you have it. I decided to replace both the pump and the sock and, if it's a fuel problem that should fix it Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Just an FYI, I spoke with the technical advisor at Facet, who said that those pumps can fail and still make the sounds they usually do, because the spring inside has collapsed or broke. Steve.
Not familiar with Facet pumps, but if it’s a diaphragm-type the diaphragm can tear or rupture, resulting in the condition you’re describing: audibly running but not delivering fuel, or delivering varying amounts of insufficient fuel. - Dave
