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bitzman's merged 0253 EU thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by bitzman, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,333
    I am new to this forum so don't know if there has ever been a discussion on the black
    1952 Ferrari 212/225 Barchetta that was given to Henry Ford II by Ferrari.
    I have seen this car at Pebble Beach and it seems to be more of a luxury car than the barchettas it resembles. I don't know how well Ferrari was doing at this point, 1952, but it seems to be that gifting an entire car was a great economic sacrifice to make with no obvious return expected.

    Has anyone ever read or heard what Enzo expected in return? I am sure that way back in 1952 he was not yet thinking of selling off the production car side of his operation as he was a little more than ten years later when he opened negotiations with Ford to buy that portion of his business out.

    My theory is that he knew that Ford had giant presses and forges and other equipment that Ferrari would never be able to afford or justify purchasing and his motive was just that, in the event he needed some part made that required much more heavy duty equipment than he had, he could then call upon his new friend HFII, and ask him "please, can you knock out some differential cases,etc.?" I don't know, though, if he ever exercised this imagined option.

    I am not writing a specific book now , it's just that my Ferrari library is pretty small and confined to English so maybe someone reading in another language or owning more obscure books and magazines will have run across an explanation of why a man owning such a small company would give away a complete car.
     
  2. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
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    Marnix
    Hi and welcome.

    You are talking about 0253EU?

    It was built for Henry Ford II but I am not sure it was actually a gift.
     
  3. rimoore

    rimoore Formula 3

    Nov 18, 2004
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    That would have been a strange site to see. Henry Ford pulling up the factory in a Ferrari.
     
  4. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
    3,244
    Yep. More likely that Gianni Agnelli got Henry Ford II interested into buying one; they were best of pals and spent lot of time together in Europe. I've also heard claims that the Ferrari would have belonged to William Clay Ford. He was a little brother. Best wishes, Kare
     
  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
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    0253 EU was sold new to first owner Giuseppe Santi in Rome, Italy. NOT Henry or William Clay Ford or similar. I have the factory paperwork.

    Marcel Massini
     
  6. Ferrarinw2

    Ferrarinw2 Five Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2006
    54,442
    great bit of history to share.
     
  7. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Thanks for the clarification Marcel and thanks for posting.

    Best,
    Dave
     
  8. Ferrarinw2

    Ferrarinw2 Five Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2006
    54,442
    who was the dealer/agent
     
  9. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
    355
    G. Santi got no less than three Ferrari in 1952. He was probably a dealer (Garage Vera ?). This may not rule out a Ford ownership. Regards.
     
  10. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,244
    This car was built at the time when Ferrari's co-operaton with Touring had already ceased completely, so it would only be natural that they needed somebody to pay for the chassis and take care of the manufacturing of the car. Santi's customership occurred at the time when this was a bare frame, not a complete car. Another fact that he may not have had anything to do with the completed car. Best wishes, Kare
     
  11. jjmcd

    jjmcd Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2004
    490
    #11 jjmcd, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
    Here is a video of the car being driven from the trailer to the show car field at The Quail (make sure you have the sound on):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S3VkdL_p4E


    Not that it means anything, but Motor Trend refers to it as a "gift".

    ==============================
    Petersen Automotive Museum Acquires Rare 1952 Ferrari Barchetta

    Museum's latest best of show installment, originally a gift from Enzo Ferrari to Henry Ford II, inspired '55 Thunderbird styling and design features

    August 26, 2005

    February 24, 2009

    The Petersen Automotive Museum, a pioneer in automotive education and one of the nation's largest automotive museums, has acquired one of the most historically significant Ferraris of all time. The black 1952 Ferrari 212/225 Barchetta by Touring Superleggera recently won Best of Show at the Meadow Brook Concorso d'Italia event on August 6th, 2005, in Rochester, Michigan. The car was originally a gift from Ferrari corporate founder Enzo Ferrari to Ford Motor Company President Henry Ford II and is valued at several million dollars. This European sports car contributed to the development of the 1955 Ford Thunderbird (the first year of the make) with a number of its unique design features

    Representing the last non-racing Ferrari bodied by Touring, this legendary Ferrari won the prestigious Best of Show title at the Concorso d'Italia over ninety other Italian cars at Concorso d'Italia. The Meadow Brook win is especially symbolic as it marks the Ferrari's 40-year reunion in Detroit, where it was originally shipped to Henry Ford II. The beautiful black Barchetta remains entirely original from the time it was delivered to Ford with the larger 225-horsepower engine, exclusive left-hand-drive, and whitewall tires, all features important to American drivers of the era. Sporting fewer than 13,000 actual miles since new, the car had not needed restoration and retains its original paint, engine, upholstery and even its whitewall tires.

    The 1952 Ferrari becomes part of the permanent collection at the Petersen Automotive Museum due to the generosity of Museum co-founders media mogul Robert E. Petersen and his wife Margie. Set to make its debut at the Petersen in September 2005, the 212/225 Barchetta will be on display in the Donor's Corner on the Museum's second floor.

    "Our most recent addition is significant on many levels," says Dick Messer, Director of the Petersen Automotive Museum. "This legendary Ferrari was evaluated by Ford stylists and made a lasting impression on American car design. From Enzo Ferrari to Henry Ford and now the Petersen Automotive Museum, patrons will be able to view first-hand this historic Ferrari's influence on automotive history."

    The Petersen Automotive Museum is located at 6060 Wilshire Boulevard (at Fairfax) in Los Angeles. Admission prices are $10 for adults, $5 for seniors and students with ID, and $3 for children ages 5 to 12. Museum members and children under five are admitted free. Covered parking is available for $6.00 per car. Museum hours are Tuesday through Sunday and holiday Mondays from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. For general Museum information, call 323/930-CARS or visit the Museum's Web site address at www.petersen.org

    ``
    http://www.motortrend.com/auto_news/112_news050826_pam_barchetta/index.html
     
  12. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    Gotta love those Whitewalls;)
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #13 PSk, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
    Not a valid theory in my opinion because Ferraris secondary business was the manufacturing of machine tools in the early years ... thus if Ferrari wanted a giant press they would have simply made one.

    Enzo Ferrari made quite a bit of money during WW2 manufacturing machine tools, reference:
    I believe this begining gave the company a huge advantage ...
    Pete
     
  14. Ferrarinw2

    Ferrarinw2 Five Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2006
    54,442
    LOL,Americans and their car shows and over restored projects.
     
  15. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,333
    At Pebble Beach awhile back I saw black 1952 Ferrari 212/225 Barchetta by Touring Superleggera The car was reportedly originally a gift from Ferrari corporate founder Enzo Ferrari to Ford Motor Company President Henry Ford II. My question is: wouldn't giving this car away represent quite a major expense for Enzo Ferrari to give away at the time, since I don't think his company was making money until the Sixties. Did he ever give away his reasoning? My theory is that, even back then, he realized tying in with a major automaker might be useful, for instance, he didn't have 40-ton die presses & such and and if he needed some small part, it might be cheaper to contract out to a major automaker than to try to make it himself. I know he didn't get into negotiations for Ford to buy him out until '62 or so but if I could find a quote on why he wanted to get into bed with Ford from the Fifties onward it would lend credibility to my theory.
     
  16. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
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    Marnix
    It was never confirmed it was actually a gift. Probably not anyway.
     
  17. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    #17 El Wayne, Oct 10, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
    Did you not read the responses the last time you posted this same question?

    Anyway, threads merged.
     
  18. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,333
    I don't have the exact wording but regarding Ferrari making machine tools
    one of Shelby's complaints about EF that I've read about was that Ferrari had a lot of machine tools from Germany that were brought there by the Nazis during the time Italy was on the Axis side. Shelby, being a WWII veteran, was a little miffed that EF was the beneficiary of the Axis, but that being said, it didn't stop him from being interviewed for open driver slots
     
  19. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,333
    This black car I saw tooling by at Pebble Beach, whitewall tires. I heard that it was owned by Henry Ford II. Dick Merrit says he bought it from the Ford family in '57 and it changed hands many times since. My question, as an artist who might make a painting of it, is:
    one article said it belonged to William Ford. Is that Willilam Clay Ford, owner of a sports team. I presume the Ford family had many cars in their private collections and even if WC Ford was on the title, it was still thought of in the family as "Henry's car." Has anyone ever seen a picture of HFII with the car or driving it? I am from Detroit and didn't hear about the car when I lived there (though I have an excuse-= in '57 I was in grade school)
    Also did the car ever reach a stage when it was covered with dirt and forgotten or has it always gone from one owner to another in a high state of care?

    Another question is: what's the purpose of the leather on the door, outside the door, kind of like a hatband going in and out of the material>

    Some web researchers claim Ferrari gave it away but wouldn't the loss of that one car have almost put his company under? I think the Ford family paid for their foreign cars, at least HF's father Edsel did when he ordered custom cars from England.
     
  20. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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  21. yale

    yale Formula Junior

    May 2, 2004
    735
    New York City
    Wow, so this is the third time you have asked this question.
     
  22. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    All three threads now merged.
     
  23. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,333
    Owner of a sports franchise in Detroit. I think he was a high Ford exec and on the Board but dnn't recall his name being associated with special cars like the first Edsel Ford, Henry Ford II, etc.
     
  24. yale

    yale Formula Junior

    May 2, 2004
    735
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    Wallace Wyss are you just going to gloss over the issue if asking the same questions on the same forum over and over again? Yessh man you're a published author.
     
  25. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,333
    Sorry to touch upon the same subject more than once. Sometimes new info emerges as new readers new to the forum see
    a question. On that particular car, what I am hoping to find to connect HFII with the car is a picture of
    Henry Ford II with it or at least someone describing going for a ride in the car with him.
    I will ask the Ford PR man if he knows of Henry's connection with the car. He spends a lot of time with Edsel who might remember riding in it though he would have been a toddler.

    I am from Detroit so I am interested in which auto executives actually knew and admired Ferraris then. The only one I came in contact with was an AMC engineer who had a 250GTO and a Detroit auto dealer Bill Markley who had a 410 Superamerica that his mechanic had a job keeping in running condition. Markley also bought one of the first Miuras to be imported. I knew Bill Mitchell but didn't know he was buying cars like the ATS to bring back to Detroit to study--he just wanted to demonstrate his custom Corvettes. (one of which, the Mako Shark II, had a steering wheel given him by Enzo Ferrari!)
     

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