BBi BB are a bit lower, but I bet it's just because there are fewer comps. When I was looking back in 2013 BBs were a few bucks more. Probably the most fickle of all Ferrari markets. Weird.
Good day All, Another Data Point... Chassis 51179 sold today on BaT for $235K USD https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1984-ferrari-512-bbi-10/ Here is the thread I started on the car https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1983-ferrari-512-bbi-chassis-51179.660789/ Cheers, Sam
i dont understand the bb mkt at all. i love my 512tr, and it is my favorite car. BUT i never considered it worth more than my bbi....and i still dont. so bizarre.
Of the two 365BBs at the June 4th Silverstone Auctions sale one (looking very complete from 35 year ownership) is listed as sold for £201k and the other as a no sale.
True. Seems like a really good person will be getting the car. As I've said to all my Boxer buddies, "You can all thank me for selling, because now they will double in value"
Good day TerryG, Thank you for pointing out these cars. I have created threads on them and captured the pics and info for others and potentially future owners. Although both cars may be complete, to me both did not present well. Both cars looked dirty and this was especially true for chassis 17625, where the seat leather, door panels, etc looked quite nasty. The summaries stated various services performed and costs, however, the lack of attention and interest to basic detailing and cleaning raises questions as to how well the services were performed ... to me anyway. As a result I think the above affected the sale price. Cheers, Sam
Boxers are expensive to put right and parts are drying up so a car with needs will be priced accordingly and a car without needs will get top dollar. It's almost like there's no in between on them. No shortage of boxers (512's) to chose from either which doesn't help the value. Testarossa's are in a similar boat, just much bigger. Both cars are a bargain.
The thing is boxers need to be in the 300-500k range to be really financially worthwhile to put right. Meanwhile theyre priced at a level where they can still be driven and enjoyed. What the car needs is modern rubber(an easy fix) more power esp up top( a more complex fix) and heat shielding with ac that works( a reasonable fix). That means a 250k boxer needs another 200k put into it. One day that will be a thing, no reason not to make those upgrades anyway when doing a resto. Meanwhile a magazine test of such a upgraded car will go a long way.
I dont think its about performance. Look at what Fiberglass euro 308's command or 206 and 246 Dinos. I wouldn't race a Dino against a Smart car yet they can get double what a boxer sells for.
Dinos stand out for their looks, and also the lightness of how they drive. Glass 308s are possibly more hype than real. I just think a boxer is hard going for many, and it needs something to really stand out. I'm reminded how well your koning ran and that with the lighter steering of the 215 front tyres the car had were transformative in how it drove comapred to say a stock BBi. Add to that a cooler cabin and ac thgat works and a bioxer suddenly has far wider customer bandwidth. jaguar Etypes are all mostly sympathetically upgraded if driven these days, as are any number of aircooled porche. Imagine a Brit mag testing a boxer that has reached its true potential but is visualy indistinguishable from stock. i think the report would be very different and its these road test stories that make a car in the classic market. i just think that is what it will take for a boxer to really step out. can you imagine the ehadline, "forget about the 275 and daytona, the boxer is the one to have"
Good day All, Another data point... although it has to be taken in context, as the car (chassis 32185) is a Koenig Modified Boxer: Sold 2022-06-10 for €166 666 which is approx $174K USD. I created a thread on 32185 with the details and pics. Cheers, Sam
The Ermenegildo Zegna input to the BB512i interior was very real. From the 1982 book I Love GTO about the 250 GTO. To make a Ferrari it also takes 5 metres of the best fabric in the world. Image Unavailable, Please Login For its interior, the best car in the world deserves the best fabric in the world: Ermenegildo Zegna. In combination with natural leather, Ermenegildo Zegna fabrics are the most advanced solution for aesthetics, functionality and comfort. Not for nothing, it is a solution signed by Ermenegildo Zegna. Ermenegildo Zegna
I hate that so many of these cars are just investments to people? Where's the passion? I never restored a car with an eye towards value. Some of these people pass them around like trinkets of art. When I commissioned a restoration of my E-Type it was in very bad shape. So bad that my restorer just advised me to sell it and buy a finished one. But it was my car and I wanted to make it right. I didn't care about the cost. I'm just a car guy. It also amazes me that the cost of what you describe above is roughly 200K. I have been out of that loop for some time. Just wow! Boxers are the last analog Ferrari. A/C be damned. If you handed me $500,000 tomorrow and said go buy any car you want, but only one, I think it would be an unmolested Carb Boxer. I am done with modern, the latest I may go is a Mondial T just because I love rag tops and have a family now.
I get you, but that genie is never going back in the bottle. I don't know about you, but I can't afford $100,000 "passion" projects. If I'm spending that money I need to have some confidence that I can get most of it back.
yes, and the big part of the "art" and appreciating of these cars is in the driving. they were never designed as static objects, beautiful as they are standing still.
Your point is well taken however,most of us are passionate enthusiasts.While we’ve done very well in consideration of the rest of the world to be super fortunate to own a Ferrari we generally do not have deep pockets.Cars are NOT an investment(I speak with my own small collection) but one must “hedge their bets”.It’s really all about costs of ownership for the majority of us caretakers.A boxer is a truly expensive car to service.The black one on BAT had very high mileage and it look like it needed $60-70,000 dollars of work.The dreaded turn indicators drilled int the upper fender requires skill and dough to patch them up followed by a complete paint job-$30,000.A major with “while your in there” is another $25,000 so that would make this car at about $300,
I think your numbers are off. I know the black car well. It runs and drives better than 99% of boxers out there. A very competent belt service by somone not cutting corners(for dealer resale) and missing stuff is 15K, thats all that car needs to the extent one is paranoid about belts. (modern belts are not so fragile, and what breaks belts on these cars is more than likely sitting + bad tensioner bearings which is what you fund on many belt changes done fo resale). Now if you want concors lawn queen, this wouldnt be the car for you. But if someone was looking for a boxer that ran right, had no needs and drove as it should, had good paint and interior and could be enjoyed for years, this was one of the very few that could be found. I know fully restored cars that look great, but couldnt hold a candle to this car in terms of driving, and I know very low mileage cars that also look great, but thats about it. The cost to make a boxer really run right is what absorbs $ cause everything from shocks to suspension to brake lines to radiatoir to hoses etc to ... needs going over, no matter how nice the paint interior and low odo reading is. I guess its all a function of what one wants. In that context yes youre right, most boxers no matter the mileage on the odo, need 50-100k to really run right.
Had a 512Bb in the shop a little while ago. The young guys liked it..but would never own it. Stinky..to hard to start..hate the warm up time etc. It became more of an annoyance then anything else. Some call it vintage..newer gen calls it a pain in the ass..nice too look at..will not own it..times are definatly changing. Dump them while you can if you are an investor...drive and enjoy if you don't care..
One always hopes what they pay for a vintage car is something they can recoup much of when they sell. Not always the case, depending on condition, etc. Buy one needing lots of work and not doing it will give you a loss when selling. They are not great cars to jump in for a 20 minute drive as it takes a while for the trans oil to warm up enough to shift right too. Having owned 5 of them I love them, but $$ value has always been all over the place, up/down and stagnant at times. Have to love looking at them in your collection, certainly not a daily driver at all. Not really comfortable around other cars, cannot be easily seen, so always on the lookout. And buy the best as most know the repair/resto costs never work out. John
I have a bad feeling they just won't be allowed to operate on public roads. Require special use permits etc. Look...I make my living fixing these old things. It will affect me far more then the owners. But I see the writing on the wall..i would be an idiot to ignore it
