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Building a kit.....

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Kami, Dec 27, 2007.

  1. Kami

    Kami Formula Junior

    Nov 28, 2006
    652
    St. Louis
    Alright guys,

    I know the general distaste for Ferrari kits here, but just bear with me. I've been wanting to do a project for a long time now. I've got a friend currently building a Lotus Super Seven on a budget of about $17k and I'd really like to have something of my own to tool around with. Problem is, I didn't have any clue what I would want to build... until now. I have a print of a '54 tippo 625 hanging in the garage, and it just smacked me how amazing it would be to drive something like that. There's no rush to have this done, just something that would be a great hobby for a few years. So my question is, has anyone here done anything similar? What kind of budget should I be looking at? Does anyone know of a company that has a kit or similar project? Thanks in advance.
     
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  3. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    If you are very handy and there is no actual ferrari content $50k might be enough. If you use a ferrari drivetrain you'll need to add $20k if they are 400/412 parts, more like $50k for 60s or 456-on stuff. Add another $50k if you can't build you own chassis and body.
     
  4. Pantera

    Pantera F1 Rookie

    Nov 6, 2004
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  5. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    Why not just restore a car or turn one into a track car?
     
  6. DGS

    DGS Four Time F1 World Champ
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    If you can build your own car, why would you want it to pretend to be something somebody else made?
     
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  8. Kami

    Kami Formula Junior

    Nov 28, 2006
    652
    St. Louis
    I'm not talking about badging it and pretending it's a Ferrari. Just having something like a vintage F1 car for track days would be pretty fun.
     
  9. DGS

    DGS Four Time F1 World Champ
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    You could call it a "Kami kazi" :p

    When Enzo started making cars, he put his own name on them. So did Ferdinand. (And Ford, Chrysler, etc, etc.)
     
  10. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Or, maybe not. Apart from being somewhat 'politically incorrect' .... ;)

    .... Perhaps you should also consider the implication of the British slang expression 'Khazi':

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=khazi :D
     
  11. DGS

    DGS Four Time F1 World Champ
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  13. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    I don't think that you will find many Ferrari bodied kit cars out there, with the exception of the Daytona "Miami Vice" spyders made from Corvette chassis and the Noble/Foreman P4 replicas. There were a few 57 Testarossa replicas built in the shadows and advertised many years ago, but I've only run across one of those locally and have only seen pictures of one additional unbuilt kit. There is also a currently made kit of a 250 LWB spyder with its own custom made chassis called the Calspyder. As far as any body kits for the older Ferraris, they don't seem to exist. Putting a correctly shaped fiberglass "Ferrari-ish" body on a chopped up Corvette frame will only win you brownie points from the trailer park crowd.
     
  14. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2001
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    Let me give you the most important advice in your atuomotive career....

    Kits, continuations, tributes, replicas, etc are complete BS... and are viewed as such by the "real" car community. That includes the total BS continuation Cobras and other BS stuff to come out of the CS camp. CS was a great American driver. Yet, IMHO he is was/a slut who sold his name to anything that could make a buck (I realise he has may charities)....but that's another story.....

    Overall, most people who build any of the above, spend more time/money than they would have to restore/rebuild the real thing.

    Get yourself a beater GT4, 308i, 365GTC4...etc, restore/rebuild somethign and be an acutal member of the club.

    For that matter, get yourself an Esprit, a 356, early 911, XKE, or......

    One of the sadests things in life is having to "explain" your car........well it's a "blank".....built from a "blank"..... blah...blah...blah.... (and watch people walk away).

    If you are going to spend your time (one of the most valubale resources in the world right now), spend it one something that is real, something you don't have to defend or "explain" and enjoy the process.

    Best of luck.
     
  15. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2007
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  16. robert biscan

    robert biscan F1 Rookie

    Building a kit may be a good hobby for you but it might not be as good as a rebuilt of a wrecked or worn out classic.
     
  17. velocedog

    velocedog Karting

    Jun 6, 2007
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    Jack
    A. You won't have much luck finding a kit to replicate what you're thinking of, so it's basically a scratch-build - much more involved.

    B. A kit or replica will be a rewarding or frustrating project, depending on your skill, workspace and checkbook. It can also be a blast to own and drive, if well done and a source of pride (yes pride) in your accomplishment.

    C. A kit or replica will NEVER be an original, historied car like the type it resembles. So, other than the occasional moron who would look at your immaculate 250TR and say "that's a Fiero, isn't it?" there is really no threat to those fortunate enough to own a rare vintage Ferrari.
     
  18. Protouring442

    Protouring442 F1 Veteran
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    #15 Protouring442, Dec 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've been thinking about all of the "love" so many people have for kits... anyone have a real Degas hanging on their living room wall? My wife loves the Ballerina series of paintings he did, but, as we are not multi-millionaires, we have prints of his paintings.

    Now, I absolutely love the looks of the California Spider and the Daytona Spider, but, as we are still not multi-millionaires, I can't afford one. But, I can build cars! No, if I were to build a Daytona, "slapped" on a Corvette frame, it won't be real. But it also won't cost near as much to build as it would to buy a real one! Beyond the costs, I can do things to a kit that I can't do to a real one, like modifications. How about electronic fuel injection? Or the idea of parking the thing in a hotel parking lot?

    Here are a few pictures of my Olds "442." It isn't a real 442, because a 442 convertible is fairly rare, and so it would be a shame to cut one up. When finished, we will have somewhere around $40K invested in it, plus my time. To anyone who might think this is a waste, well... whatever. But I bet anyone who loves to work on cars will agree that every hour spent on it is well worth it!

    Shiny Side Up!
    Bill
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  19. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Rookie

    May 16, 2007
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    I agree that he jumped the shark with Omni GLHS, but the Mustangs of the 60's are legitimate classics.

    He may have jumped back, some of the Shelby Mustangs today are impressive as well, at least in a straight line.
     
  20. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Rookie

    May 16, 2007
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    When I see a Corvette with a Daytona Spyder body kit on it I see it as a waste of a perfectly good Corvette.

    On the other hand, an extremely faithful replica like a Favre GTO does make sense to me. A real 250GTO is far too valuable to be driving on the street or track. A real GTO owner could get 99% of the driving experience for 5% of the potential cost in an accident.

    I am also curious of everyone's thoughts on "component cars" like the Ultima, FFR GTM, or RCR Superlite?

    http://www.superlitecars.com/index.html
    http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/gallery/gtmgallery.html
    http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/

    I don't know much about RCR (they make a 917 replica too), but the GTM uses a C5 Corvette engine, steering, and suspension. It doesn't pretend to be anything other than what it is.

    The Ultima, aside from the Chevy V8 and Porsche gearbox is mostly manufactured in England. It is far from a rebodied Fiero or 280ZX. It actually has some indirect supercar cred, Mclaren used an Ultima to test the BMW engines for the F1 supercar.

    I have also always liked the Beck Spyder, again a cheap and relatively faithful tribute to an extremely rare and expensive classic. Road & Track drove one and asked why anyone would buy a Miata for the same money.
     
  21. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
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    Aug 27, 2005
    4,302
    VA
    I am almost getting tired of saying it. It's like the guy who's never driven a Ferrari (or whatever) chiming in about the experience.

    If you have not built a car yourself then you do not know what you are talking about. I have never met ANYONE who built one and said "Gee, what a piece of crap, that was a waste of time and money." I am as big a Tifosi as the next guy, but I also know what it is like to drive something you put together yourself. If you don't, get off it until you do.




    BTW, This isn't the forum to ask. There are others out there that can provide more information.
     
  22. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
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    I understand where you're coming from. You want a classic car that's a blast to drive and doesn't cost a fortune. I am of course biased, but may I suggest a 1972-75 Lotus Europa TCS?

    Here are the advantages: It's a real car with a history and mystique. It handles better than most Ferraris at double digit speeds. They look fantastic in person (that's an opinion of course; they can look awkeard in pictures). They sound fantastic. They are exempt from emission in most/all states. They are about as quick as a 308i. Parts are cheap and easy to get. It's an easy car for a DIY guy and the Yahoo Europa group is equal to this one for technical support. It has a DOHC engine, twin carbs and chain driven valve timing which is as reliable as the Ferrari 308 but without the maintenace hassles.

    And you can get a really good driver for $12k, put $8k into it and have a top example for $20k that will be clean, "reliable" and turn heads everywhere you go. They are hard to find but decent examples come up for sale from time to time on eBay etc. Stay away from the Renault engined S1 and S2 as you'll get a better car with a TC or TCS, although some will dispute this.

    Ken
     
  23. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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  24. DGS

    DGS Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Which is why I keep thinking that, if I built the thing myself, I'd for darn sure put my own name on it, rather than somebody else's.

    There are those who figure the Pantera as junk, because it has a Chevy motor. But there's a case of a car that's not trying to be anything except itself.
     
  25. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 26, 2005
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    I concur. My brother has been keen on replicas of the Porsche 356 Speedster. Honestly, a real early 911 is much cooler than a fake Speedster.

    I have to admit I admire your handiwork, and it sound like you're doing it for the enjoyment, so you've got the right perspective, IMO.

    But, I'd also say it would get annoying (to me) to explain at every car gathering that it's a replica.

    Real history and mystique are absolutely key. I've never been in a Lotus Europa. If someone offered me a ride in their replicar-kit, I'd pass. In a real one, I'd be all over it, hoping to get a taste of what vintage Lotus was all about.
     
  26. Protouring442

    Protouring442 F1 Veteran
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    I can see your perspective on the feel of the vehicle, and if a truly authentic vehicle were what I was after, then you are even more accurate in your assertions that only a “real” car is acceptable. Instead, I am after a truly usable vehicle, but in a more classic package. My 442, for example, has tubular upper and lower control arms that, in conjunction with an after-market spindle, improve the feel and precision of the steering by a large factor. The front brakes are C-6 Corvette, and the rears have been upgraded to discs as well. The engine is a 454 Chevrolet unit, with electronic port fuel injection, backed by a 5-speed.

    As you can see in the photos, the interior has more modern seats with 6-way power tracks, a real teak dash (as well as console) insert, and a tilt/telescopic steering column now topped by a genuine Nardi wood wheel. Everything is done so as to appear as though it “could have come that way” from the factory.

    As for the assertion that it would bother you to have to explain that it was a replica, I’ll have to admit that I am ambivalent about it. While I couldn’t care less about the actual explanation, I have also considered using a name of my own. This is especially appealing as I would probably modify the exterior as well. My thought, for example, for a Daytona Spider would include updating the front end, perhaps along the lines of the 456, with its hidden headlights and bulges running down the front fender tops. What do you think of Inamorata spelled out in capital letters running across the trunk? =-)

    I forgot to mention, any car we buy/build will have to be capable of carrying my wife's wheelchair, plus some luggage. It will also have to be a convertible, and be as leak free as a convertible can be.

    Shiny Side Up!
    Bill
     
  27. Roadtripguy

    Roadtripguy Karting

    Nov 26, 2007
    53
    I didn't read this entire thread, but browsed it, since it ended up at the top of the stack. Sorry if this has been covered:

    If you want to build a kit car, you should check out Factory Five Racing http://www.factoryfive.com They have top notch kits that are reasonably priced. You can also buy the assembly manuals FIRST to figure out if you really want to get into this, and there are forums on the internet detailing the experiences of various FFR kit builders. GREAT support. Hardcore car guys at both the forum and factory. I'd build one if I had the space.

    Another option is to build a Monster Miata (do a web search). There is a kit available for that also, as well as an assembly manual.

    Not Ferrari kits, I know, but something to consider.

    Just my $.02
     
  28. Roadtripguy

    Roadtripguy Karting

    Nov 26, 2007
    53

    I thought that was Australian slang, along with "Shag a Barbie." WOW was a lot of Tequila involved when I first heard those with some temporary Australian friends... :)
     

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